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I by no means have a “green” lifestyle but I do drop in here every once in a while to learn a thing or two. My greenness goes as far as not wasting energy or other natural resources but I am not putting myself through hardship just to be green. This brings me to living “off the grid”. First of all, what does it exactly mean? Does it refer to just electricity or all modern amenities? Given the normal needs of human beings, is it even possible to disconnect from the world? Do you have to live in a cabin in the woods to live off the grid?
I think it's impossible to live off the grid willingly in the United States
You always get corralled back into the system, "have to pay your dues" for being on the land
I think homelessness is the closest thing we have to living off the grid
I think the best a person can do is be a rice farmer in Northeast Thailand
Where you're insulated from conflict by the hardy terrain and have little to offer to any invader
Even American-based foreign policy journals poo-poo the region for not having any exciting features or resources to plunder
During day-light, our Photo-Voltaic panels generate enough power so that we can operate every appliance in our home, all at the same time. [if we wanted to]
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Is your system large enough to do this.....or did you mean during a sunny day??
And is that on a sunny day between 10:00 and 14:00 hrs??
Is your system large enough to do this.....or did you mean during a sunny day??
And is that on a sunny day between 10:00 and 14:00 hrs??
On most days, from about an hour after sun-rise and until an hour before sun-set, our panels generate enough power so that we could operate every appliance in our home, all at the same time.
Right now it is from about 8am to 3:30pm [08:00 to 15:30]
Last edited by Submariner; 12-03-2015 at 11:02 AM..
I think it's impossible to live off the grid willingly in the United States
You always get corralled back into the system, "have to pay your dues" for being on the land
I think homelessness is the closest thing we have to living off the grid
I think the best a person can do is be a rice farmer in Northeast Thailand
Where you're insulated from conflict by the hardy terrain and have little to offer to any invader
Even American-based foreign policy journals poo-poo the region for not having any exciting features or resources to plunder
We do pay property taxes every year, you can not own land without paying those taxes.
Here in 'high cost' New England my property taxes for a new 2400 sq ft house and 150 acres of land with 1/4 mile of river frontage come out to roughly $757.50 each year.
I by no means have a “green” lifestyle but I do drop in here every once in a while to learn a thing or two. My greenness goes as far as not wasting energy or other natural resources but I am not putting myself through hardship just to be green. This brings me to living “off the grid”. First of all, what does it exactly mean? Does it refer to just electricity or all modern amenities? Given the normal needs of human beings, is it even possible to disconnect from the world? Do you have to live in a cabin in the woods to live off the grid?
I lived "off the grid" for one month after Sandy. My house had five feet of water in it. Power was also off in neighborhood for one month.
The pitch blackness at night was scary. With not a single light or even a car. Marital Law was pretty much in effect at night. The house was wicked cold and damp. We had an early snowstorm and no matter how many sleeping bags or blankets you had it was horrible.
A few days in I was removing wet insulation and I got stick stuff on me and I am pretty sure a good dose of lead paint, absestos and mold. I had running water and took a shower on a 40 degree date and man I was never so cold in my life. The silence was also deafening, no TV or radio within three miles.
My gas grill would work if I used matches even though under salt water, we made coffee on it one day and it felt like heaven on earth.
We got electric end of November, a new heating system first week of December, and by end of January house was somewhat back to normal. We got full cable tv back as wires were replaced, new oven, new washer and dryer and new dishwasher and bought new cars.
People say they want to go off grid. I tried it but when everyone is off the grid it is scary. As every store and car within three miles of house distroyed too. Living off grid is easier when you can take a break from it.
My Mom who was born in days of no central heat, no electric or even running waters or indoor bathrooms in Great Depression HATED IT, to the day she died she enjoyed the joy of turning on an oven or flicking a light switch or taking a hot shower.
She showed me old cook books and I laugh. Chicken Dinner started with kill a chicken, pluck a chicken, got to creek haul up water, start a fire, put water in put in fire cut up chicken.
AHHHH she loved chicken breasts from supermarket you threw in a pan.
The big problem with living "off the grid" is it is so damn much work.
After we moved to a home hooked up to the electric company, I was playing with the kids one afternoon and realized that the dishes were washing, the clothes were drying, a roast and potatoes were in the oven, the refrigerator was keeping things cool and I didn't have to lift a finger. Not pump and heat water. Not stoke the wood stove. Not rung the clothes through a wringer or hang them on the line. Nada.
It was quite a wonderful afternoon.
BINGO! Living the rural, "off-grid" life-style is greatly romanticized both by people who have never lived it as well as by advocates who exaggerate how "easy" it is. They generally require considerable compromise and effort to make off-grid living "work" as Submariner finally admits here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner
Too late to 'edit', so allow me to clarify.
During day-light, our Photo-Voltaic panels generate enough power so that we can operate every appliance in our home, all at the same time. [if we wanted to]
Once the sun goes down, then we settle down. Only a few lights are on. My PC and my Dw's PC, our modem / router and our heating system's circ pump is left running.
Our chest freezers are on timers so they only run during day-light hours.
We have had to modify our lifestyle, so we do things during daylight, when we have surplus power. At night, we are on the battery-bank, so we conserve power.
Anyone who thinks these systems are expensive, is, well, let me say, they have been 'marketed'. I hope that is a kind way to say it.
I am 7 miles from interstate I-95. Within 30-minutes lie: two hospitals, an assortment of universities, a shopping mall and all the big box stores.
Nor'Eastah and I live fairly near one another.
In my town there are power lines but only to a few properties in our town. Most properties in my town do not have grid access. Grid power here is not reliable, our grid goes down EVERY month. Plus we normally expect the grid to go down for 4-day to a week at least twice a year. Which is why every home has a generator, or else they go off-grid. This is the East Coast after all.
Everyone here has heat, water, septic, refrigeration, freezers, laundry machines, microwaves, etc. Though admittedly not all homes have TVs, because there is only one TV channel to watch.
Nor'Eastah is right, city folk are numb. They will pay way more than what a solar system actually costs.
I got quotes from two installers. Both quotes were over 3X what the average home around here costs.
Ummm ... this isn't an "East Coast" phenomenon. Tens of millions of people have perfectly reliable power all along the East Coast except when there's a hurricane or particularly nasty nor'easter, and the most impacted are those who live closest to the coast. Maybe it's a Maine phenomenon, but my guess is that Portland and its suburbs has decent power. You just chose to live in a rural area with crappy, unreliable power.
I lived in/near the East Coast for a dozen years and there was only 1 multi-day power outage during that time when a freaky early October snowstorm brought down thousands of tree-limbs onto power lines. Other than that, unless there was a severe wind/lightning storm we never lost power for more than a couple of hours.
I've lived here in the western Southern Tier for nearly twenty years since and during that time there's been about four multi-hour power outages, three of which were caused by equipment failures and the other the last big "black out" in the Great Lakes area several years ago.
Most people I know who live out in the country around here don't have generators to provide emergency power because we have adequate and reliable electrical service. We get high winds and heavy snow regularly, and our local power lines are built to withstand both. Unless a tree takes out a power line or a lightning strike fries a transformer, you don't lose power.
That said, what happens to your reliable solar power during periods of extended cloudiness, which is a major factor in limiting the effectiveness of solar power generation in almost all of the Great Lakes, Northeast, and New England from about November through March?
Since "the grid" is actually nothing more than all the power generating stations in a certain area connected by transmission wires and controlled by switches, short of the Yellowstone caldera exploding or a meteor hit, it's highly unlikely that "the grid" would be out of service for a long length of time.
Furthermore, where there's been natural/man-made (as in 9/11) disasters, city (and suburban) dwellers have proven to be remarkably resilient and cooperative, especially compared to the stereotypes posited by the paranoid prepper crowd.
Offgrid means different things to different people. I've lived off the grid on a few different properties for approx 3 years now. My wife and I are 28 and 29. We like it because off grid properties are a lot cheaper than their utility connected counterparts and allow for quicker access to financial freedom. You can really come out ahead if you can find land without restrictive building codes and build alternatively (earthbag,strawbale,cordwood,adobe, etc).
On our latest property we live on in Alaska, we bought 10 acres, 20 miles outside of town for $10k, no property taxes whatsoever. Then we built a geodesic dome home ourselves for approx $5k. It isn't much but we are going to expand in the spring and build a bigger one without taking on any debt.
We've lived here for coming up on a year. Pretty much any livable rental in my town will be $1500+ and utilities and heat on top Of that. So with living off grid for approx a year here we've already come out way ahead from renting, plus we own something that I could sell for $20k+ right now.
To me, the main attractions to living off grid are financial freedom and having to work less. I have a few small side business and my wife only has to work 4 days a month (or more) as a RN. You can also get a beautiful piece of land for a fraction of the cost, if it's farther out and no utilities. Between solar and wind and batteries and propane appliances, you really don't have to rough it and it doesn't have to be expensive.
We are able to enjoy working around on our property in our 20's instead of slaving away for 30 years to be able to "afford" something when we are pushing 60. Seems like a good deal to me. All my neighbors are pretty nice and pretty much everyone around has at least chickens and a backyard greenhouse as well as hunts and fishes.
Working less and for myself, not having the stress of lots of bills, living in a beautiful area with mountains, good neighbors, no stresses of the bigger cities, no restrictive rules and extra money in my pocket really works for me.
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