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Propane not only burns super clean but it also does not degrade in storage. A downside is less energy than gasoline and much less than diesel.
Keep in mind that every source has different numbers and variances can be significant. This is a representation of the essential difference in energy yielded:
Propane: 90,000 BTU/gallon
Gasoline: 118,00 BTU/gallon (this can vary significantly due to ethanol or avgas etc)
Diesel: 140,000 BTU/gallon
Engines would need to be larger to compensate for the decrease in energy density. Then again, less emissions equipment could boost performance. But that assumes that government would react in a reasonable manner which is likely to disappoint.
Case in point. (tho WVO is my least used feedstock)
in my PNW location (recycle centric) I need to shop to find free WVO (takes about 10 min / week). some people (greenies) are even willing to pay for WVO
In TX home, I can get unlimited amounts of free WVO in a matter of minutes. (no one recycles), as is evidenced buy the tons of trash in the roadside ditches.
As mentioned... the CHEAP cost of crude oil has disrupted the development of alternative fuels. Than can be fixed NOW! (double the price of vehicle fuel in USA, ~ make it competitive / par with WW markets). Plenty of that money could be allocated to transportation efficiency improvements,
CNG, = low energy value, dinky storage (pressure vessel); Horrors for anyone with long range needs, great for commercial vehicles in close range to infrastructure. If I get a CNG van as a booked transport in Thailand... I will be stopping for fuel a LOT!!! several times daily.
It's difficult to compare various fuels. The potential energy stored in the chemical bonds is released as the C-H and C-C bonds are oxidized in the combustion process.
The short chain gases are "cleaner" than long chain oils because virtually all the C_C bonds are turned to CO2, while the combustion of the oils is less efficient and the "soot" is the remnant, un-oxidized, shorter chain hydrocarbons. If you're worried about GHGs, each type of engine puts out virtually the same amount as it putts down the road because that kinetic energy comes from the combustion: each C-C bond turns into two CO2 s. Methane has less energy than ethane because one molecule of CH4 has only one C to oxidize, while ethane C2H6 has two, etc)
There are more C-C bonds in a mole of octane than in a mole of propane, but more moles of propane in a gallon (minus energy used to compress it) than moles of octane in a gallon...and then there's the mechanical considerations: you can go with a more efficient high compression engine running on propane than on octane. (Indy cars run on methanol, less energy rich than octane or ethanol but allows very high compression ratio.)
Fracking in the upper MidWest has given us a huge potential source of NG. It's a really easy, cheap conversion from gasoline carburation to NG. But we already have a huge capital investment in infrastructure for delivering gasoline & Diesel, so we (they) won't lay out the $billions needed to build the infrastructure needed for large scale delivery of NG until the liquid stuff is depleted.
Right now, NG is cheap because demand is relatively low. Once it becomes the fuel of choice, the price will rise.
ps/ I was worried about over-population until fracking opened up this huge source of energy. Industrial agriculture is essentially the process of turning petroleum into food, it has been said (ever tried plowing with a mule?) If petroleum was on schedule to run out in 100 yrs, the human race would be hard pressed to feed itself after that. But now, it's estimated we have a 600 yr supply of NG to run our farm implements. Somebody's gotta come up with cold fusion by then.
Last edited by guidoLaMoto; 05-25-2018 at 05:47 AM..
CNG, = low energy value, dinky storage (pressure vessel); Horrors for anyone with long range needs, great for commercial vehicles in close range to infrastructure. If I get a CNG van as a booked transport in Thailand... I will be stopping for fuel a LOT!!! several times daily.
In the USA, or perhaps Thailand - yes. But we are talking about Germany on European forum...
BTW: As of January 2013, Thailand has 1,014,000 LPG fueled vehicles, and consumed 606,000 tonnes in 2012 of LPG, while 483 stations serve up some 380,000 CNG vehicles. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autogas
As mentioned... the CHEAP cost of crude oil has disrupted the development of alternative fuels. Than can be fixed NOW! (double the price of vehicle fuel in USA, ~ make it competitive / par with WW markets). Plenty of that money could be allocated to transportation efficiency improvements,
Really tough for those of us in the Western USA (We use 300 gal / day during harvest) and can be 5 hrs driving to the city / airport from many locations.
Of course, how a program like that got implemented would make or break the deal): (Germany didn't succeed, but does have a much higher Alternative energy policy that USA. As do it's neighbors)
One would need to set objectives and in USA that would take decades and billions of dollars in useless haggling. (special interests, lobbists, 'credits')
But with the correct vision and implementation it could be a Very Quick and robust solution (to alleviate oil dependency / wars...)
But with the correct vision and implementation it could be a Very Quick and robust solution (to alleviate oil dependency / wars...)
About 77% of the oil consumed in the US is domestically produced, almost half of what we import comes from Canada which might as well be considered domestic. The end of dependence on foreign oil is near and with the high oil prices that will only be accelerated. Long term benefits are more high paying jobs in the oil/gas industry, energy security and a more stable market in the future.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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I for one... (60+ yr diesel / Alt fuel 'user' (engineer, farmer, and trucker ...)) would consider it wise and responsible for a resourceful country with the scientific and economic means to NOT continue to Fuel the conventional energy sector and instead (in addition) put some $$ into efficiencies / alternatives to 'drill more / pump more / burn more'.
Those options would NOT include silly Gov programs to bandaid / prop-up / 'credit' whimpy non- financially- sustainable gov solutions.
Get the scientists and the strategists to innovate paradigm shifts in transportation / power trains / fuels / distribution.
Now is the perfect time (growing economy with lots of available resources and technologies.) Could be a boon to the USA economy and strength, but we are actually getting trounced by other countries in energy technologies and services.
Now is the WORST time to 'relax / - status quo' 'drill more / pump more / burn more'
Wild dream... but I would love to see Gross imports of foreign oil to USA to drop from 8 mil barrels per day to ZERO. (down from 10m in 2005 / pre-fracking)
I am not against the oil companies and the profits, they can continue to sell / export and fuel the USA with CASH, as we have been doing for others for 100+ yrs. Basically we have previously been using the resources of other countries, but with fracking and the unpopular war subjects... we are burning more of our own supplies. +/- I say we can burn a WHOLE lot less of ANY oil. But 'economics' wins that battle, and the USA is such an energy hog, the disruption of world markets if we quit buying may have the same effect (war).
Last edited by StealthRabbit; 05-27-2018 at 04:22 AM..
Wild dream... but I would love to see Gross imports of foreign oil to USA to drop from 8 mil barrels per day to ZERO. (down from 10m in 2005 / pre-fracking)
I am not against the oil companies and the profits, they can continue to sell / export and fuel the USA with CASH, as we have been doing for others for 100+ yrs. Basically we have previously been using the resources of other countries, but with fracking and the unpopular war subjects... we are burning more of our own supplies. +/- I say we can burn a WHOLE lot less of ANY oil. But 'economics' wins that battle, and the USA is such an energy hog, the disruption of world markets if we quit buying may have the same effect (war).
You bring up two important factors that need to be entered into the overall equation:
a) petroleum supply is a major strategic consideration in national security. Cutting off the Third Reich's supply, for example, was a major consideration in disabling them in WWII. Shouldn't we be using up their supply before we deplete our own?
b) Energy usage is a proxy measurement of economic health. The production & delivery of goods and services require the use of energy. Now, it's one thing to strive for better efficiency in energy usage, but it's another to strive for reduction in usage just for reduction's sake. That would mean a reduction in economic output, fewer jobs, lower salaries, lower standard of living.
Shouldn't we be using up their supply before we deplete our own?
That time may be approaching quickly, the fact is that the major oil fields in the ME have been exploited for 50 plus years. When they first drill a well the oil typically comes out by itself because it's under pressure, then they need to start pumping which introduces an energy expense. Now they are pumping sea water into many of these ME oil fields to keep them producing. This introduces more energy expense. As this process goes on the energy expense continues to rise and at some point it exceeds the energy you are extracting.... peak oil. There is still oil there but the energy to extract it makes it pointless unless you were going to use if for something else like plastics. How much is left is debatable, the Saudis and other nations hold that data tightly. Most of the estimates are based on very old data.
Peak was correctly predicted for Texas in the 70's however new technology and techniques have given life to old wells and new ones. The other thing is you don't know what is around the corner next.
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and instead (in addition) put some $$ into efficiencies / alternatives to 'drill more / pump more / burn more'.
There is still oil there but the energy to extract it makes it pointless unless you were going to use if for something else like plastics. How much is left is debatable, the Saudis and other nations hold that data tightly. Most of the estimates are based on very old data. 
