What you **NEED** to know about grain fed beef (install, electric, area)
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Yeah, dairy and beef farming in Alaska only works well in a few areas where it's warm enough to grow winter feed. From what I've gleaned from the farmers up there, the cows do fine in the winter if you bring them into the barn, but growing enough grass and grain to feed them is the real problem (100 day growing season - ouch).
Yeah, dairy and beef farming in Alaska only works well in a few areas where it's warm enough to grow winter feed. From what I've gleaned from the farmers up there, the cows do fine in the winter if you bring them into the barn, but growing enough grass and grain to feed them is the real problem (100 day growing season - ouch).
You could grow corn couldn't you? We are close to that here. It's not that we can't grow 120 day corn, it's just that our planting season coincides with when its optimum time to harvest our first crop of hay. If we delay that and finish planting our corn, then the grass matures and we lose out on high protein grass. That is not good because we get protein bonuses for our milk.
So we plant 120 day corn in our best fields, stop and get our first crop of hay in, the go back and plant 100 day corn. We lose some tonnage, but overall we get a higher quality feed.
But Alaska is far different then here that is for sure. Certainly a lot of logistical nightmares to go through even if you could get feed in the 15-18 tons per acre range. That is why I wouldn't think cows would do very good up there. I supposed you could get some Scotish Highland beef cows, but if you have ever tasted them, you would probably want to gnaw on your leather boot first.
I understand that walking the fine line between proven conventional methods, adopting viable new techniques and avoiding farm fads must be tough. I certainly don't envy an established larger farm in that regard. When you're generating a large amount of produce, people are depending on you not to fail and you need to make sure you stay profitable, it makes it more difficult to be flexible and try new things that might fail or fizzle. No fun.
That has a lot to do with it, but I have found you run into a lot of jealousy that is disguised as well meaning intentions. I know our farm is a tier 3 farm,and out of 340 dairy farms in Maine, there are only 21 farms in our category which are the biggest producers in Maine.
Its not a big issue on this sub-forum, or any other sub-forum on city-data, but on other forums I frequent, you get called some pretty nasty things. On the surface it sounds like we as conventional farmers balk at a lot of ideas, but considering we have been here as long as we have, and have gotten as big as we have, and have family that wants to continue to farm for the next several generations...could it possibly be that we are doing things right?
As I said before, I am in a wonderful period of my life right now. I am starting a whole new adventure on my farm with sheep, while working with my family to ensure that it dovetails nicely with the dairy farm. No matter what I do, my sheep won't starve so I can try some new things, and I post the results for people that might not have access to equipment and farming techniques that I do.
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Originally Posted by MissingAll4Seasons
My Pop-Pop used to keep a small herd of goats (mostly wethers) just for brush control and clearing new & old fields. After the goats mowed everything down, he'd set this year's feeder hogs in to till for him. He'd cull the herd for his table, rather than profit, and he sold the surplus goat milk to other farmers and vets for bottle-feeding. That worked really well for him, and I think something similar would work pretty well for us too.
The only reason I'd really consider a few cows is to get different milks for cheeses and because I'm not sure I convince my neighbors that goat's milk is good Compared to the nasty shelf-stable milk in boxes that they're currently drinking, goats milk is way better but people seem to have something against goat milk and meat in this country. I'm sure I could sell lamb a little easier, but again, probably not the sheep's milk (even though it makes excellent cheese and butter). Of course, with all the hassle of trying to provide dairy and meat, I might not have to worry about what other people want or what cheeses to make because I can't sell them and can only enjoy them myself. Oh well, as long as I can eat, that's all that really matters and my veggie surplus will have to be my "cash crop".
I'm in contact with several farmers in the general area (Alaska distances of course) so I get more info on which livestock breeds work best up there and have a few seed stock sources with proven records. Cows definitely do better farther south (around Kenai) than up north.
It sounds fun. I talked some scenarios over with my sister and brother in law and just doing that was a blast. Like you, the idea of fresh red meat (beyond game) was thrilling for them. We talked sheep of course, but it was a great conversation. In another life perhaps I would move up there, and who knows, maybe in 40 years when my daughter can take over this place, I will move there. It is getting crowded here.
The main reason dairy farming failed in Alaska was because the "geniuses" who promoted it, didn't have the infrastucture in place to support it.
I don't know if it was the Alaskan Governor, his State Ag Commissioner, or who.
In the long run, Alaska found out it was way more cheaper to get its dairy products shipped up from Washington State than to get them from their own dairy farms inland.
You could grow corn couldn't you? We are close to that here. It's not that we can't grow 120 day corn, it's just that our planting season coincides with when its optimum time to harvest our first crop of hay. If we delay that and finish planting our corn, then the grass matures and we lose out on high protein grass. That is not good because we get protein bonuses for our milk.
So we plant 120 day corn in our best fields, stop and get our first crop of hay in, the go back and plant 100 day corn. We lose some tonnage, but overall we get a higher quality feed.
But Alaska is far different then here that is for sure. Certainly a lot of logistical nightmares to go through even if you could get feed in the 15-18 tons per acre range. That is why I wouldn't think cows would do very good up there. I supposed you could get some Scotish Highland beef cows, but if you have ever tasted them, you would probably want to gnaw on your leather boot first.
Corn is tricky in AK, because it's not just the short growing period but also the extremely low soil temps. In order to grow corn in AK (at least where I'll be at) you have to transplant through plastic sheet mulch to get/keep the soil temps high enough, early enough and long enough which is pretty prohibitive for fodder (although doable for garden-scale). You're better off trying to plant an early variety of wheat, barley or oats and praying that frost doesn't lay it over before you can harvest.
Corn is tricky in AK, because it's not just the short growing period but also the extremely low soil temps. In order to grow corn in AK (at least where I'll be at) you have to transplant through plastic sheet mulch to get/keep the soil temps high enough, early enough and long enough which is pretty prohibitive for fodder (although doable for garden-scale). You're better off trying to plant an early variety of wheat, barley or oats and praying that frost doesn't lay it over before you can harvest.
Good point. I was thinking about corn from a purely tonnage point of view. We get 20-23 tons to the acre which is a whole lot better then 3-4 tons to the acre for pasture. The ground temp is a good point. That kind of stuff escapes me because we have farmed here for so long. My birthday is on May 8th and I have NEVER seen a season where we could plant before that date...not because of soil temps but because of mud.
Now if Corn is out of the question for AK, then what about Kelp or seaweed? I know a farmer here who pitchforks kelp off the rocks and feeds it to his sheep for nutrition. I know interior AK is a ways from the ocean but considering your options, maybe obtaining seaweed for feed or supplement would be cheaper then raising your own feed?
Closer to the coasts you could probably use kelp and seaweed, both for feed and soil amendment; but again, I'm hundreds of miles from the coast and the road system doesn't really go many places... I'd end up having to barge it in on the river or fly it in for the most part (which I might do for soil amendments). However, most pasture grasses & some fodder-quality grains do grow pretty well on cleared forest so you can get a pretty good mix of high protein leguminous and high-carb grains. Some of the hardier local grasses will even grow in just a few inches of poor soil on top of permafrost or in boggier areas where the permafrost retards percolation. But you do have to do some intensive pasture rotation and compost amendments for it all to work out best for your critters.
May 8th is still within our heavy frost window and is pretty much in the middle of breakup, so the soil is cold and very muddy with the melt. Nighttime temps can still get below freezing until June. Considering that summer temps are normally 60-70F, with an occasional 80F day here and there, anything that likes really warm soils - corn, tomatoes, peppers, cucumbers and melons - often have to be babied along. We normally see termination dust (first snow in the mountains) beginning in October and it's not uncommon to have snow on the ground before Halloween. Of course, the cold soil and short growing season is offset by 20+ hours of sunlight a day in the summer... seriously, July 4th not as fun up there because it never gets dark enough for fireworks, the sun just sort of dips down in the sky, spins around the horizon and comes back up again (opposite problem in the winter of course!).
Have you ever had your soil tested? I would think your amendment problem is probably right at hand, it is just figuring out how to deal with it. The two major problems I have here are:
1. Nitrogen
2. Lime
To some degree I can get my nitrogen up with the applications of fertilizer...in my case cow manure which is liquid gold. But lime I am deficient on, and I really need it for this darn acidic soil. If your soil has trees then I would assume that you may have the same problem.
As for pasture rotation...this is one of those things that we have whole-hearily endorsed. This is not a farming fad in any sense of the word, this is just good farming practices for the new millennium. As I said, we often adopt good ideas...just not every idea...we here. MIG...yep why didn't we think of this 100 years ago?
Finally there is the lack of sunshine and cold weather in AK. Have you researched sheep in this regard? Sheep are not like most animals that can breed any ole time. Nope, they have to have ample food, cool nights and shorter days to conceive. That might be an issue for you as that would put lambs on the ground very early in the season (January). That may not be the best time for lambing that's for sure.
You can delay lambing by restricting access to your ram (Another thing...AI does not work well with sheep) until December or so. That would put lambs on the ground in May...a better time, but without ample feed your lambing percentages will be down. You can cure that issue with grain, but then the logistics of that could be an issue.
I am not trying to sound negative, but I was wondering if you have researched the issue of sheep conception and short days and cold nights in AK?
PS: I just got done watching AG Day and was that the wrong thing to do. Farming subsidies are being cut pretty aggressively at a time when food supplies are at an all time low. Its one of the reasons why I voted for your governor instead of a Yuppie that has never stepped foot in a barnyard. Sorry for the rant, but I got to take my Prosac to get over this new dismal news.
PS: I just got done watching AG Day and was that the wrong thing to do. Farming subsidies are being cut pretty aggressively at a time when food supplies are at an all time low. Its one of the reasons why I voted for your governor instead of a Yuppie that has never stepped foot in a barnyard. Sorry for the rant, but I got to take my Prosac to get over this new dismal news.
Yes of course farm subsidies are being cut. That was NO surprise - by doing that and then pushing the "carbon credit" system, more farmers and ranchers will be herded into that artificial trade system. You already qualify, after all, since you use rotational grazing. Soon the brokers will knock on your door and offer you thousands of dollars to do what you do anyway, so that big polluting corporations can "buy" carbon credits from you. If you have lost other farming subsidies you will fall back on these carbon credits and then the politicians can talk about how well their carbon credit program works. It isn't the food supply that matters to those who wear boots for decoration only - it is the power and the billions of dollars changing hands, with gubbermint taking the cream off of the top. And how can any large-acre, large-production farmer or rancher survive without subsidies? I know it is very hard...
I'm not a big fan of subsidies, but it has just gotten to the point that the cost of living, and the decreasing profit just means I have no other choice. Not so many years ago you could count on a very profitable farming year every 7th year. In those years we would invest in higher fertilizer amounts and do some projects we had been holding off on, nowadays there is no profitable 7th year.
The last time my farm took a government handout was in 1947 when 3 hurricanes caused mass erosion on some potato land we had. They installed some drainage ditches to help keep erosion in check. My Grandfather remembers that, and while his farm (separate from mine) has never taken a government handout since then either...this year we both filed for some farm improvements. We should get them approved, but who knows?
I'm kind of ashamed about it, but if this gets done it will help 3 separate farms, put more lamb and milk on Maine people's table, and get some wood to the paper and sawmills too. Maybe its just justifying a deal with the devil, but I'm excited about getting a very long sought after project completed.
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Compared to the nasty shelf-stable milk in boxes that they're currently drinking, goats milk is way better but people seem to have something against goat milk and meat in this country. I'm sure I could sell lamb a little easier, but again, probably not the sheep's milk (even though it makes excellent cheese and butter). Of course, with all the hassle of trying to provide dairy and meat, I might not have to worry about what other people want or what cheeses to make because I can't sell them and can only enjoy them myself. Oh well, as long as I can eat, that's all that really matters and my veggie surplus will have to be my "cash crop".
