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Old 08-14-2008, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Minnysoda
10,659 posts, read 10,724,472 times
Reputation: 6745

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougnaie View Post
i believe there is also an article in today's New York Times on the subject of "the grid" and it's inability to handle future loads...worth a read.
I'm not as confident as these guys are..........
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/14/ny...sq=Grid&st=cse
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Old 08-18-2008, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,771,962 times
Reputation: 24863
Since electric utility grids are used by everyone I suggest they be owned and operated by the government. Then the cost of increased capacity could be shared by all the users’ not just the latest to join. Transmission lines are like highways and like roads should be paid for by all the users on a “at cost” basis.
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Old 08-18-2008, 06:59 PM
 
Location: Northglenn, Colorado
3,689 posts, read 10,416,361 times
Reputation: 973
Quote:
Originally Posted by my54ford View Post
OK I know this is anecdotal and I don't have it in writeing but I was at a meeting yesterday with VP's from several very large utilities and transmission system operators,, They predict widespread grid collapse by 2012. No one is being allowed to install enough dependable generation to support current loads much less future growth. This mean that utilitys (like the one I work for) will continue to operate old dirty power plants instead of replaceing them with new clean burn technology
and this is because of all of the people blocking the install of new transmission lines to solar and wind plants, blocking the building of any sort of new power plants, and even stalling the upgrade from dirty to clean for years and years.
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Old 08-18-2008, 07:03 PM
 
Location: Northglenn, Colorado
3,689 posts, read 10,416,361 times
Reputation: 973
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
Since electric utility grids are used by everyone I suggest they be owned and operated by the government. Then the cost of increased capacity could be shared by all the users’ not just the latest to join. Transmission lines are like highways and like roads should be paid for by all the users on a “at cost” basis.
wow, that seems to be the ticket, let the government own everything, we wont have any problems anymore. Well.... almost no problems, except for a government that is way oversized and gets away with running everyones lives.
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Old 08-19-2008, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,771,962 times
Reputation: 24863
I think having the natural monopolies like roads, airports, electric transmission lines owned in common makes a lot of sense. Government ownership provides, among other things avoiding the cost of a profit on the investment, a reduced interest rate because of reduced financial risk and much lower executive salaries. It also allows construction to precede load growth creating a more electrically stable grid.

If you are disteessed by the government "running everyone's lives" how do you feel about the private sector doing the same. I do not want either.
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Old 08-19-2008, 06:59 PM
 
Location: Northglenn, Colorado
3,689 posts, read 10,416,361 times
Reputation: 973
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
I think having the natural monopolies like roads, airports, electric transmission lines owned in common makes a lot of sense. Government ownership provides, among other things avoiding the cost of a profit on the investment, a reduced interest rate because of reduced financial risk and much lower executive salaries. It also allows construction to precede load growth creating a more electrically stable grid.

If you are disteessed by the government "running everyone's lives" how do you feel about the private sector doing the same. I do not want either.
can you name one thing that the government does well except take our money and use it inappropriately and unwisely?
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Old 08-20-2008, 06:31 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,771,962 times
Reputation: 24863
Bonneville Power authority, Tennessee Valley Authority, Interstate Highway System, most municipal water supplies, for a few.

I would rather have my money used for publically beneficial things like power lines, roads and safe water supplies than squandered on some private investor's fancy boat or more expensive mistress. I suspect that some of my taxes will be wasted (Iraq War for insrtance) but I am certain that my part of private profit will be wasted.
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Old 08-20-2008, 06:36 AM
 
Location: Minnysoda
10,659 posts, read 10,724,472 times
Reputation: 6745
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
Bonneville Power authority, Tennessee Valley Authority, Interstate Highway System, most municipal water supplies, for a few.

I would rather have my money used for publically beneficial things like power lines, roads and safe water supplies than squandered on some private investor's fancy boat or more expensive mistress. I suspect that some of my taxes will be wasted (Iraq War for insrtance) but I am certain that my part of private profit will be wasted.
While I am Loath to give any more control up to the goverment. I am a Goverment employee. The Municipal Power industry has a very good track record in maintaining power supply and delivery infrastructure. The only problems is as mentioned ....We can't build line or Generation........
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Old 08-20-2008, 07:32 AM
 
28,803 posts, read 47,689,558 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noahma View Post
wow, that seems to be the ticket, let the government own everything, we wont have any problems anymore. Well.... almost no problems, except for a government that is way oversized and gets away with running everyones lives.

First Tuesday in November. If you're not happy with the status quo, change it.

And on another note, give control to the TVA since they already have an excellent track record.
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Old 08-20-2008, 08:28 AM
 
955 posts, read 2,157,312 times
Reputation: 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
I think having the natural monopolies like roads, airports, electric transmission lines owned in common makes a lot of sense. Government ownership provides, among other things avoiding the cost of a profit on the investment, a reduced interest rate because of reduced financial risk and much lower executive salaries. It also allows construction to precede load growth creating a more electrically stable grid.
You claim that "government ownership avoids the cost of a profit". I would argue that first, the need to show a profit drives productivity and efficiency. Not having to show a "profit" drives inefficiencies and no accountability.

The point about "much lower executive salaries" is not what it seems. Look at the substantial financial benefits that "non profit", i.e., politicians, derive from being able to play the system.

And "reduced financial risk" is another misnomer. The cost of failure is simple passed on in the form of added taxes.

You painted your vision of the world. I have just painted mine.
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