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[quote=HappyTexan;4867657
I second tallrick's suggestion..move outside the city limits and do what you want.
.[/QUOTE]
Defeatist attitude. If we're going to green the country, we have to infiltrate the suburban masses. We have to slowly get housing developments to accept green practices, without them noticing. If we just stick to only associating with and living with other environmentalists, then our effect won't be as great.
Take green living mainstream! Don't banish it to the countrysides and "urban renewal converted warehouse green condo developments".
ALL green items are EXPENSIVE, and take many many years to see any benifit out of them.
Yeah, so let's not use any insulation, either. Just too expensive.
Meanwhile back in the real world. Tallrick probably has it right. Never argue with idiots. After a while it becomes hard to tell which side is (the idiot).
However, if for some reason it were necessary to be in a (hostile) HOA area, I would strongly consider doing the fully proper application with full plans, details, and 3-D rendering of the final product, and signed endorsements from any and all supportive neighbors. Send it in to the to HOA committee with an Intent of Suit Notice.
Go to the meeting and when and if the board votes against it, hand them their Court Summons for the lawsuit you have filed as a Pro Se in preparation. Sue the HOA as a group and and each individual board member who voted against you.
If is very cheap to do this as a Pro Se, but by the time the board has to hire an attorney for the HOA and all named board members, their bills will crank into the thousands and hundreds of thousands of dollars very quickly. As you will have yet done nothing to violate the HOA rules, they will have nothing to counterclaim against you. Run this lawsuit for a few months with detailed discovery requests, depositions, and summary judgment hearings, and you will bankrupt the HOA and collapse them even before it makes it to a formal trial.
This is pretty much the reverse of the how the typical HOA acts against homeowners in their area of influence, so you might as well backup the toilet on them and flood them out in advance, while staying fully compliant with all laws and restrictions, yourself.
Total cost to you would be some hundreds for formal plans (which you should do, anyway) and a few hundred to file and provide service on the lawsuit.
Yeah, so let's not use any insulation, either. Just too expensive.
Meanwhile back in the real world. Tallrick probably has it right. Never argue with idiots. After a while it becomes hard to tell which side is (the idiot).
However, if for some reason it were necessary to be in a (hostile) HOA area, I would strongly consider doing the fully proper application with full plans, details, and 3-D rendering of the final product, and signed endorsements from any and all supportive neighbors. Send it in to the to HOA committee with an Intent of Suit Notice.
Go to the meeting and when and if the board votes against it, hand them their Court Summons for the lawsuit you have filed as a Pro Se in preparation. Sue the HOA as a group and and each individual board member who voted against you.
If is very cheap to do this as a Pro Se, but by the time the board has to hire an attorney for the HOA and all named board members, their bills will crank into the thousands and hundreds of thousands of dollars very quickly. As you will have yet done nothing to violate the HOA rules, they will have nothing to counterclaim against you. Run this lawsuit for a few months with detailed discovery requests, depositions, and summary judgment hearings, and you will bankrupt the HOA and collapse them even before it makes it to a formal trial.
This is pretty much the reverse of the how the typical HOA acts against homeowners in their area of influence, so you might as well backup the toilet on them and flood them out in advance, while staying fully compliant with all laws and restrictions, yourself.
Total cost to you would be some hundreds for formal plans (which you should do, anyway) and a few hundred to file and provide service on the lawsuit.
I was responding to his statement "Remember the point of all this Green is to save money overall" which is completely untrue. Green is EXTREMELY expensive. I design homes, I design everything from your 7000 sqft large home, to your small 1200 sqft. home. I have made homes that are to code energy requirements to darn near NET ZERO homes which are 100% completely self sustaining. It is not cheap. you really need to be dedicated to spending up to 50% or more in extra construction costs to get it to that point. Spray foam insulation while doing a great job of insulating a home, it is very very expensive to use it on the entire home. it is best used in areas where air might infiltrate IE any ridge in the home, along sill plates, along areas where the rim joist is joining another area of the rim joist, under headers and sills of windows. Use rigid on the outside of the house with a good vapor barrier and rigid insulation within the wall cavity and some bat insulation along with that, and you are going to do good as far as sealing the home up. A good window is going to cost you as well. Solar arrays can add an incredible amount of money to a home, even with the very bad government incentive (30% of the cost of the system up to $3,000) in Colorado Xcell energy will pay for 55% of your system up to a 10kw system, after that they pay you monthly on a lower than produced cost. the home we just recently completed the design for that had a HERS rating of 10, and yes, it was a large home, (6000 sqft.) had an estimated 100,000 solar system that produces 15kw of power. Not cheap. the ARC (Architectural Review Committee) was a little hesitant at first, but a full set of plans, several architectural renders, and showing that the views would not be impacted, they gave the go ahead.
Defeatist attitude. If we're going to green the country, we have to infiltrate the suburban masses. We have to slowly get housing developments to accept green practices, without them noticing. If we just stick to only associating with and living with other environmentalists, then our effect won't be as great.
Take green living mainstream! Don't banish it to the countrysides and "urban renewal converted warehouse green condo developments".
Well when you buy in an HOA development you have to agree with the rules.
I want to let my grass go dormant.
I want to keep some chickens.
I want to keep rainbarrels at each corner of my house to catch rain.
I have a metal roof.
I want to site my home to get the best passive solar energy from it.
I want a home elevation that is suited to my climate.
(I have all the above by moving outside the city limits and outside of subdivisions with HOA's.)
There's no HOA subdivision that will let me do the above. I would love to see these so called "green builders" really approach this the right way.
Well when you buy in an HOA development you have to agree with the rules.
I want to let my grass go dormant.
I want to keep some chickens.
I want to keep rainbarrels at each corner of my house to catch rain.
I have a metal roof.
I want to site my home to get the best passive solar energy from it.
I want a home elevation that is suited to my climate.
(I have all the above by moving outside the city limits and outside of subdivisions with HOA's.)
There's no HOA subdivision that will let me do the above. I would love to see these so called "green builders" really approach this the right way.
Builders are not the ones that decide on the HOA rules, it is a body of home owners that setup the rules.
If you want the above listed things, look around. I can think of at least 4 sub-divisions within 10 miles of each other here in Colorado that would allow most of what you listed above. The city also has guidelines when subdividing land. and there are the Architectural Control Committees, the review boards and the HOA's that come up with the covenants, and the builders themselves have to agree to design to the guidelines they list. Such as roof design, exterior materials and colors, landscaping allowed and little things like making sure a chimney is a functional chimney and not just there for show. (yes, we have had several) I can post one of these guideline packets we get when designing in a sub-division, but be prepared to read several hundred pages of rules that are set forth by several different governing body's including the city.
I live in a condo with restrictive rules that have prevented me from developing a proper Yankee back yard (YBY = small scale auto recycling and junk yard) but I live, more or less, by the rules. When I retire I plan (discussions with SO are progressing) to find a place fairly close to a small city in New Mexico and purchase and/or build a 400 sq ft adobe house with a tin roof and direct solar heat. I will then start on collecting a proper back yard. The yard will include a 200 yd rifle/pistol range.
None of this will require the “property value protection” of a home owners association because I will live there until I die and I’ll let my heirs, if any, worry about the place.
Well when you buy in an HOA development you have to agree with the rules.
I want to let my grass go dormant.
I want to keep some chickens.
I want to keep rainbarrels at each corner of my house to catch rain.
I have a metal roof.
I want to site my home to get the best passive solar energy from it.
I want a home elevation that is suited to my climate.
(I have all the above by moving outside the city limits and outside of subdivisions with HOA's.)
There's no HOA subdivision that will let me do the above. I would love to see these so called "green builders" really approach this the right way.
That's why you have to appeal the HOA restrictions. They aren't set in stone. Remember, the HOA is just a extreme form of local government, and if you're persuasive enough, you can get them to change the rules.
If you want any of these things, you need to start fighting for it. Let them know how these changes save money. People love saving money. Get some neighbor support. Things like rainbarrels are not radical, and they can even help make the neighborhood look better.
Not all "green" improvements are extremely expensive, and in many places, the local utilities/city government will give assistance that will in some cases almost pay for them entirely.
Please don't throw that imaginary roadblock in the way of people becoming more environmentally friendly.
Not all "green" improvements are extremely expensive, and in many places, the local utilities/city government will give assistance that will in some cases almost pay for them entirely.
Please don't throw that imaginary roadblock in the way of people becoming more environmentally friendly.
As I have stated earlyer, Xcell energy does offer a 55% rebate on solar arrays up to a 10kw system, the price still comes out to be more expensive than most are willing to spend. and with a 15 year payback it is not realistic for most people to install these systems when the average person moves once every 5 years. The federal incentive is just plain laughable for using solar, it is 30% of the total cost of the system, up to $3,000 most systems for solar are going to cost you $15,000 + to make any sort of dent in your electrical bill.
I deal with these costs all day, as I have also stated, I design homes and spec these systems very frequently. I was shocked at the cost of reclaimed tiles, they are roughly 50% more expensive than the new counterparts. Recycled glass counter tops will rival Marble slab counter tops in price point. Spray foam will cost you 25-30% more than standard insulations. Geo-thermal pumps can cost up wards of 15k whereas a standard 90% efficiency heater will cost you around 2-3k. they are more expensive. Heck even your glass cleaner that is set as environmentally friendly or "green" is more expensive than your standard windex.
I am not trying to throw a roadblock into the idea, I just want people to pull their heads out of the couds or other areas they may be sticking it and look at the reality of cost. The costs are high, the payback is long in coming.
I will agree the costs are high but not prohibitive. When I replaced my shingle roof with a metal roof it was 2.5 times the cost. I knew it though and saved up.
You don't have to do it all at once though. It can be planned and put into place over time depending on your finances.
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