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Thanks for your thoughts. I haven't heard the word "Moors" being used like you do. My hazy memory of some of my History classes is failing me, but I thought it referred to Muslims in northern Africa? Could you tell us more? Or do you have a link? Completely ignorant here. Embarrassed to say that the most I can remember is that George Castanza called them "Moops" because of a typo on Trivial Pursuit, causing the bubble boy to go after him.
Moors has nothing to do with religion, but is the true ethnic background of those that got labeled black and african american. Moors conquered Spain, but I can't remember what time period. They were very smart and powerful as we still are today, but have forgotten. American history doesn't include this stuff! Just the slavery crap. Just do a google search on Spanish Moors. Its the real deal, and sorry to blast you like I did. I was just waiting for it.
Moors does not mean all "black people" or "Africans".
It primarly relates to those of Berber and Arab descent in Northern Africa.
If you are from Norther Africa, more (No pun intended) power to you but if you are using it as some "clicky" term to describe "black people" it's inaccurate.
How are you gonna tell me and I'm apart of it? I meet with the group, so you're telling me you know more about it than I do living in Conn.? Wikipedia is info submitted by anyone. We've had to correct on Greenville many times. Black is a label that America gave us. You were calling us colored. You change colors more than we do. You don't have a right to call me anything but what I tell you. I'm not beneath you. It the same way that your probably from Europe(ancestors) claiming you own America. Don't get me started.
Much in the same way that people chose what they want out of the Bible to throw quotes and meanings, you have done the samething here. Moor means black or very dark in color. An English(white) dictionary tried to change the meaning to not reference "blacks" or Africans. Why are you always trying to downgrade us to make your petty selves feel better? America was built on the hands of slaves which were Moors.
Moor comes from the Greek word mauros (Greek orthography μαύρος, plural μαύροι), meaning "black" or "very dark", which in Latin became mauro (plural mauri). In the Romance languages (such as Portuguese, Spanish, French, and Italian) of Medieval Europe, the root appeared with such forms as "mouro", moro,moir, and mor. Derivatives of the root are found in today's versions of the languages. Through nominalization, the root has always referred to various things conveniently identified by their dark color, for example, blackberries, black olives, very dark grapes, dark-haired people, or dark-skinned people; but the senses referring to dark-skinned people today generally hover close to (or, more often, clearly cross over) the line of offensiveness. Moreno from the Latin root can mean "tanned" in Spain and "black person" in Cuba. Morapio is a slang name for "wine", specially that has not been "baptized" with water, i.e., pure unadulterated wine.
The Moors, during the Middle Ages and as late as the 17th century, were described as being black, dark-skinned, or swarthy in complexion. Modern texts, such as Webster's New World Dictionary, groups all Moors together under the terms Arab and Berber, which has caused individuals to omit the association with Africans that are racially considered "black". Considering that Berbers were a mixture of various shades of diverse nomadic groups comprising of North Africans and some Sub-Saharan Africans, the claims of racial heritage being of one specific group are at best dubious. Today, it is the lighter inhabitants of Morocco and Mauretania who are called Moors.
In Spanish usage, moro ("Moor") came to have an even broader usage, to mean "Muslims" in general (just as rumi, "from the Eastern Roman Empire", came to mean "Christian" or "European" in many Arabic dialects); thus the moros of Mindanao in the Philippines, and the moriscos of Granada. Moro is also used to describe all things dark, as in "Moor", "moreno", etc.; and it has led to many European surnames such as Moore,Mauro,De Mauro, and so on. The Milanese Duke Ludovico Il Moro was so-called because of his dark complexion.
How are you gonna tell me and I'm apart of it? I meet with the group, so you're telling me you know more about it than I do living in Conn.? Wikipedia is info submitted by anyone. We've had to correct on Greenville many times. Black is a label that America gave us. You were calling us colored. You change colors more than we do. You don't have a right to call me anything but what I tell you. I'm not beneath you. It the same way that your probably from Europe(ancestors) claiming you own America. Don't get me started.
I'm not telling you anything aside from what a "moor" is based on history so get a grip. This is the United States of America...I can say anything I wish except "fire" in a crowded theater. My knowledge and opinions are mine. I can have them if I wish, same as you. But facts are facts.
I used Wiki as a reference for simplicity sake. I know the term (And about the "religous" sect like the Moorish Temple of Science or The Nation Of Moorish-Americans etc ) and I'll say it again, Moors does not mean all "black people" or "Africans". It primarly relates to those of Berber and Arab descent in Northern Africa. If you are one of them, you are a moor.
I'm Italian. I have family I can go visit in Avigliano. I'm Avianese. I would not take offense to someone explaining that my roots as an Avianese were somewhat Persian or whatever based on history. I am what I am. (You'd probably call me Moreno actually...go figure)
So are you of Berber or Arab descent? (Those be in North Africa BTW)
Am I a "white devil" too?
Quote:
Originally Posted by motonenterprises
Much in the same way that people chose what they want out of the Bible to throw quotes and meanings, you have done the samething here. Moor means black or very dark in color. An English(white) dictionary tried to change the meaning to not reference "blacks" or Africans. Why are you always trying to downgrade us to make your petty selves feel better? America was built on the hands of slaves which were Moors.
Moor comes from the Greek word mauros (Greek orthography μαύρος, plural μαύροι), meaning "black" or "very dark", which in Latin became mauro (plural mauri). In the Romance languages (such as Portuguese, Spanish, French, and Italian) of Medieval Europe, the root appeared with such forms as "mouro", moro,moir, and mor. Derivatives of the root are found in today's versions of the languages. Through nominalization, the root has always referred to various things conveniently identified by their dark color, for example, blackberries, black olives, very dark grapes, dark-haired people, or dark-skinned people; but the senses referring to dark-skinned people today generally hover close to (or, more often, clearly cross over) the line of offensiveness. Moreno from the Latin root can mean "tanned" in Spain and "black person" in Cuba. Morapio is a slang name for "wine", specially that has not been "baptized" with water, i.e., pure unadulterated wine.
The Moors, during the Middle Ages and as late as the 17th century, were described as being black, dark-skinned, or swarthy in complexion. Modern texts, such as Webster's New World Dictionary, groups all Moors together under the terms Arab and Berber, which has caused individuals to omit the association with Africans that are racially considered "black". Considering that Berbers were a mixture of various shades of diverse nomadic groups comprising of North Africans and some Sub-Saharan Africans, the claims of racial heritage being of one specific group are at best dubious. Today, it is the lighter inhabitants of Morocco and Mauretania who are called Moors.
In Spanish usage, moro ("Moor") came to have an even broader usage, to mean "Muslims" in general (just as rumi, "from the Eastern Roman Empire", came to mean "Christian" or "European" in many Arabic dialects); thus the moros of Mindanao in the Philippines, and the moriscos of Granada. Moro is also used to describe all things dark, as in "Moor", "moreno", etc.; and it has led to many European surnames such as Moore,Mauro,De Mauro, and so on. The Milanese Duke Ludovico Il Moro was so-called because of his dark complexion.
Why if Wiki is so bad, did you just quote from it? I get it, okay for you but not for me.
Perhaps "race" is indeed still a big underlying issue in the South...keep it.
I lived in Spain for 8 years and while I was there I married a beautiful Spaniard. I can tell you motonenterprises from personal experience that you are not completely accurate. As JViello posted the Moors did not conquer Spain, they only took approx 1/2 of it and possessed it for approx 800 years. They made a very large influence in the history of Spain that still exists today and none of it is "African" it is "Moroccon". The Moors that you are refering to are from North Africa and very similar to the Egyptians and other Arabs in their cultures and beliefs. The slaves that were taken and brought to the Americas were not the Northern Africans. They were farther south and were captured and sold by their bretheren Africans. Freetown, Guinea was one of the slave trade areas. Anyway the Moors portion of slavery was brief and involved Europeans and very few Moors were ever taken to the Americas. The majority of slaves came from farther south.
JViello you say "race" is an issue in the south. WTF "race" is an issue everytime someone brings it up. That's why I don't get the whole "application thing" --- what race are you? I am ****ing American!!! I have black friends but most of them are from the Caribbean and don't call themselves "African Americans", they call themselves black.
Every time I hear that race thing it makes my skin crawl. No, I have no idea what your ancestors went through, but neither do you. Lets just move on!
Ligon, you are indeed right. JViello just ticked me off pretty much. He ask about things down here, we tell him and he acts like were stupid. As I've said, I'm apart of a Moorish organization. So I doubt if you study it like I do. What better way to get the info than from the mouth of the horse. I'm just sick of people throwing up the race card. That has nothing to do with what the south is about. Telling me about Moors is like trying to tell a Mason about Masonry if you're on the outside looking in.
Motonenterprises,
Agree with you on JViello taking things to a level that he should not. I have two kids, one carries himself like an Astronaut and experiences things instead of looking at them, the other carries himself as an Astronomer, he studies them from afar. JViello mentioned that he is some type of social science professional, again someone who looks from the outside and never really experiences the real aspects of life. Have you ever watched an ant colony, same concept, you can see what they collect and what they do with it, but you never really know why!!!
Have a great day and lets just move on in the struggle of life! Best to all of you!!!
Last edited by Ligon; 02-17-2008 at 09:41 AM..
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