Don't Understand the Moana Kea Issue (appointed, sale, legal)

[wikiwikirunner]

Originally Posted by Jonah K

None of the protestors quit their "jobs" -- some work for organizations and businesses that support the protest, some are "self-employed", and others are "unemployed."

and the unemployed receive their money from where?

[hawaiian by heart]

Im just curious what the protesters wages have to do with the topic of the thread?

Don't Understand the Moana Kea Issue

[wikiwikirunner]

Originally Posted by hawaiian by heart

Im just curious what the protesters wages have to do with the topic of the thread?

Don't Understand the Moana Kea Issue

I have not read any articles to say exactly where or how the protesters receive their income (other than the $25,000 donated by a benefactor on Oahu). For those who can afford to fund their stay up on the mountain while managing their personal finances, then you are right, it does not matter. But I'll say this: It is well within their rights to stand for Hawaiian Sovereignty, their heritage, and their religion, but if you are going to cost the state and federal governments countless $ by delaying the project, then receiving government benefits would be immensely hypocritical.

[whtviper1]

Originally Posted by hawaiian by heart

Im just curious what the protesters wages have to do with the topic of the thread?

Let me refresh your memory - if you check with post #1, the topic is referencing people protesting on Mauna Kea - In fact protesting is mentioned very specifically and prominently - hence the question - how does one afford to do all this protesting, is someone funding them?

Or, did you mean the thread title literally, the misspelled "Moana" - in which case, nobody should have ever responded to the thread.

[Jonah K]

Originally Posted by wikiwikirunner

and the unemployed receive their money from where?

Probably friends, family, and the internet (e.g. gofundme.com)…
Sacred Mauna Kea Fund by Kealoha Kahunaaina Iona - GoFundMe

[smarino]

I've had a change of mind after thinking this over, and think its a valid gripe that the native Hawaiians have. They have seen their culture and many other things destroyed by the US, who did take their island illegally.

The Hawaiians should have been awarded native status by the courts years ago, but the screwy ruling, and I am sure this angered a lot of people, was that the Hawaiians were Polynesians and not native to the Hawaiian islands, they were people who came from some place else. At least I think this was the gist of the ruling. If that is essentially true, it is not right. We now know that the native Americans that were here on the mainland when the Europeans first arrived had actually crossed over from Asia many, many years ago. This court ruling is really splitting hairs.

I'm not sure how to resolve this equitably. With very little land of their own, with no nation within a nation status that many of the mainland Indians have, it is very difficult not to feel that everything wasn't taken from you and you have just been pushed aside. Which, unfortunately, is the way of the world. Almost any territorial boundary anywhere was placed there by treaties after wars, or by a small group of people who claimed ownership of the land and sold it w/o any right to it. The Moana Kea thing is not really a religious or racial issue, it's more about the politics and culture of the Hawaiians. In that sense its a symbol, and a powerful and very visible one. I feel sad for them and totally understand their anger and frustration.

Its unfortunate in a sense that the Hawaaians did not go to war when their islands were taken away. Everyone in the world has heard of Crazy Horse and the other great warriors that the native American tribes produced. They actually won battles against a much more powerful force. But that was then and this is now. You can't point to what happened in the past and see it as a solution for today. Without a court ruling in their favor (the native Hawaiians should take this to the World Court, but that of course is controlled by people not sympathetic to their cause in my belief) this will just go on and on, and the Hawaaian culture may either eventually be assimilated into the US culturally, or things will just get worse. Something needs to happen, but what I don't have a clue. It's not for me to say anyway.

[hawaiian by heart]

Heres the deal There is no separating the TMT construction, sovereignty, and Hawaiian cultural beliefs. The culture and the people are all a part of the aina, and the rightful indigenous custodians of the land. All aina is sacred and part of who they are spiritually. Native Hawaiian were farmers and fishermen before there culture was interuptted.

[whtviper1]

Originally Posted by smarino

I've had a change of mind after thinking this over, and think its a valid gripe that the native Hawaiians have.

Why wasn't there any griping when the Office of Hawaiian Affairs made a motion to support the TMT telescope in July 2009?

The Office of Hawaiian Affairs was created by the Hawaii Constitution.

Only Hawaiians can elect people to the Office of Hawaiian Affairs.

Each island much have a representative.

Board members must be Hawaiians.

The Constitution in Hawaii also empowers the Office of Hawaiian Affairs to formulate policy relating to the affairs of Native Hawaiians.

Seems as if Native Hawaiians get a chance to control their own destiny.

[pj737]

Originally Posted by whtviper1

Why wasn't there any griping when the Office of Hawaiian Affairs made a motion to support the TMT telescope in July 2009?

Social media was almost nonexistent in 2009. Today, social media is transforming the world in dramatic ways. Today's Supreme Court ruling (which I support) is 100% the result of social media's influence on society.

You can pretty much come up with any idea, concept, belief, etc and with the support of social media, you will manage to find thousands if not millions of people that support you.

It's the quintessential double-edged sword.

[whtviper1]

Originally Posted by pj737

Social media was almost nonexistent in 2009. Today, social media is transforming the world in dramatic ways. Today's Supreme Court ruling (which I support) is 100% the result of social media's influence on society.

You can pretty much come up with any idea, concept, belief, etc and with the support of social media, you will manage to find thousands if not millions of people that support you.

It's the quintessential double-edged sword.

The same-sex marriage issue is very different because it impacts everyone.

The TMT telescope is different - it doesn't matter what millions of people think or what I think since I'm not Native Hawaiian. This telescope went forward due to elected officials elected only by Native Hawaiians supported it.

The point is - this is an issue that was solely determined by elected representative of only Native Hawaiians. If the elected representatives who were elected solely by Native Hawaiians not supported this in the first place - we wouldn't be having this discussion.

What is lost in the rhetoric is there are a lot of Native Hawaiians who support TMT (and employed/work on various telescopes) - it isn't completely lost of everyone that a people who founded Hawaii based on exploration now want to fight modern day exploration - ironic isn't it?

700 people protesting on a mountain don't speak for all Native Hawaiians - but, the Office of Hawaiian Affairs, elected only by Native Hawaiians, are the voice and policy makers for all Native Hawaiians.