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When I first came to Honolulu as a young married Navy sailor in 1986, I immediately fell in love with the place. The friendly people, the weather, the laid back style, especially the multiculturalism after growing up in the South sealed the deal. Now 30 years later I haved moved to Virginia Beach, VA. At one point in my life, I would have never thought of moving. I have met some really good local folks, made some really good friends and I consider myself lucky to have experienced the true meaning of aloha many times over. The down side of living on Oahu over the years has been working really good paying jobs and never being able to afford nothing more than a studio. The cost of living is just criminal, the ever expanding homeless population is rediculous and the quality of life is not what call paradise at all. Now in my 50's and facing retirement age, I knew it was time to leave if I ever wanted to bank any $$ for retirement or buy a house for less than a million that I would want to live in. I moved in March and in within 30 days, purchased a 3 bedroom 2 and 1/2 bath house with a yard in front and back in a park like setting with a lake out side of my back yard gate for $245K. The same house in the same type of location in Honolulu if you could even find one would have easily been way over a million. All this with no $ down. That alone made me realize moving was the right decision for me and my wife. Now the only wild life I see are ducks, rabbits, squirels, not chronics and drunks and homeless outside my door as in Aiea..... I think I really decided to move after on more than one occasion seeing people (men and women) drop their pants and take a dump on a public street as I saw in downtown Honolulu on Bethel and again on Vineyard all in the same week..... That was enough!!! Homeless camps all over have become the norm and state and city leadership's best idea to fix it is to put people in Matson shipping containers..... Really? Come on Hawaii, why no mobile homes? Most new mobile homes are built better than those single wall plantation houses all over the islands or quonset huts out in the country. Here in VA, a new double wide cost only 50K, very affordable for a working family in Hawaii but they don't even have the option to buy one in Hawaii. Leadership has failed far too long to deal with many issues facing the state. A rail line to no where when it should have been planned to go where people really need to go in the first place.....at how many billions now? Hopefully I'll win the lottery so I can afford to come back to Hawaii one day.
Thanks for posting Ray, and I wish the best of luck to you. You post contains detailed information, which is 100% true.
I find your posting valuable for both current residents and potential residents. Some people seem to think that the the cost of living aspect is overplayed here, and that one can "make it" with a ton of preparation and hard work. THAT IS TRUE, you can "make it" if you are dedicated. The question that current residents and prospective residents need to ask themselves is "is that something they want to do?". Do you want to work multiple jobs for less money just to live paycheck to paycheck with a little savings? Do you want to rent or own a place less than half the size you'd get in other locations on the mainland? Do you want to deal with the homeless that taking over in many neighborhoods (partially due to the city kicking them out of waikiki because it's bad for tourism)?
Current residents already find making it in Hawaii difficult with friends and family here to support you, being a transplant is much more difficult. Multigenerational familiies crammed together under one roof is the norm, not an exception. SECRET: The way that many locals "make it" here is basically passing down their property bought decades ago to the younger generation or handing over large amounts of savings earned over their lifetimes to the kids so they can make that downpayment on the $800k house. 1st generation hawaii residents have it the most difficult. From what I've seen, by the 3rd generation, things aren't too bad because of the support and wealth built by the previous two generations that have been passed down. Imagine if you and your siblings inherited a paid off house and a rental unit or two. Or lived with the parents rent free until your 30s, at which point you marry and combine resources to buy a house (with assistance from parents). Without that huge rent/mortgage payment, life in Hawaii not quite as difficult now right?
Even with advantages of already having a support network here, the best of our young generation leaves the islands in droves every year for better opportunities on the mainland. To me, making the exact opposite move is somewhat foolish unless at the minimum, you have a really good job lined up, which I've stated in other threads.
Despite what our leaders are saying, the homeless problem is growing worse, not better. I live/work in downtown area, and everything you say is true. 10-20 years ago, the problems of homeless encampments popping up everywhere, the crazies defecating everywhere (homeless was always there), people lined up sprawled out all over the sidewalk on bishop street after dark, etc etc. was not as bad as it is now. The scary thing is that we're dealing with all these issues in a strong economic cycle with a 2.7% official unemployment rate. What happens when we have another 2008 recession? The financial position of the state and city government itself is already precarious, between ballooning fixed obligations and financing the rail. What happens when tax revenues dry up in recession?
Regarding mobile homes - I understand the desire of the state officials not to have these things everywhere as it "pollutes the beauty of the islands". BUT are homeless encampments any better? It's much more of an eyesore than mobile homes. If they wanted to keep mobile homes out of the view of the general public, then they should run a mobile trailer park on sand island and rent out lots, potentially hire a few security guards, maintenance workers for upkeep, etc.
Gosh Ray - it reads like some really poor planning on your part.
I can see someone taken aback by the cost of living by someone who just got here - but someone here 30 years? And complaining now?
In 1986, you could have bought a single family home at the median for $171,200 - and it would be paid off by now.
Didn't have the money in 1986? Lets save for 15 years (just $2,000 a year). As recently as 2001, you could have bought a single family home at the median for $299,900 - and you'd be halfway done with a 30 year mortgage. And sitting on nearly $500K of appreciation.
And in more recent times, you could've bought a median single family home in 2011 during the great recession for $575,000. You'd probably have a good $200K in appreciation about now and I'm skeptical your place in Virginia will ever have the potential for that kind of appreciation.
And you certainly don't need to spend a million for a 3 bedroom/2.5 bath even in Kailua. Even today a couple making $75K each in their 30's should be able to buy a home at the median.
Personally, I see a lot of progress with the homeless. The population is no longer growing. I see police enforce sit-lie laws downtown all the time. I rarely see homeless in Waikiki where it is essentially illegal. The Kakaako camp is gone. The just broke up the Dole camp. Eventually they'll get pushed west more out of sight. I don't think the government should be responsible for housing. Want to fix the homeless situation - change the federal laws allowing Micronesian immigrants to come to the US visa free - they lack the language skills and education even for basic jobs but given the choice of being homeless on some speck of an island in the Pacific they choose Hawaii as a better alternative to be homeless.
Last edited by whtviper1; 06-23-2017 at 11:20 AM..
Between 1986-2017, there have been two big downturns and one small adjustment in the property market. Why didn't you buy at those three opportunities?
You shouldn't look to buy only when you approach retirement age. For all these years you have had steady income which you could plan well ahead for your retirement if you chose Hawaii. You just didn't prepare for it
For all the doom and gloom on prices here it's important to note:
Between 1986 (assuming he had no money for down payment) and 2001 if Ray had saved $6 per day he'd have enough for a down payment in 2001. That's even assuming he chose not to invest in a hugely booming stock market.
Yeah that's all well and good for those who were able to save and buy a place during those downturns, but trying to enter the market now is next to impossible with median home prices hovering around 700-800k.
yeah, my opinion is that to be able to buy a place here by yourself on a normal salary, you really need to plan adequately and be able to time the 10 year market swings. if you're looking at buying your first place, right now in strong economic times, you should be trying to save as much as possible and working a lot, maybe 2 jobs. Then when the market turns, you'll have enough for your 20% down (ideally). A low to moderate amount of saving wont get you very far in the long run, as far as being able to afford a place.
You'll save a little money, it wont' be enough to buy a place on the downcycle, then the economy takes off, and your rents get jacked higher. Rinse repeat cycle.
Yeah that's all well and good for those who were able to save and buy a place during those downturns, but trying to enter the market now is next to impossible with median home prices hovering around 700-800k.
While it doesn't apply to Ray's situation - lets take your situation at face value.
1) If you don't have enough for a down payment, it doesn't matter what the median is - whether it be $300,000 or $1,000,000
2) The beauty of the median is half the homes are below the median (currently $760K on Oahu) - you likely won't live in Hawaii Kai, Kahala, or Kailua at the median - and it might be in Kapolei, or it might be a fixer upper, but nobody is entitled to buy at the median.
3) Can't afford the median single family home? Well, one can go the condo route. Median about $415,000 - again, half are below that price.
Can't buy now - form a plan. Get roommate(s). Save. Instead of living by yourself at $2,000/month, maybe you get a $3,000 place with a roommate and bank the $500/month you save. Or get 2 roommates. One can always have sour grapes about the cost of housing, but it is near record highs and if you don't formulate a plan, 30 years will go by like for Ray and you still won't have a home
Thanks everyone for your comments, especially "rya 96797", you get it. For all the other comments, keep in mind most young military guys at 20 years old aren't thinking like you "senior members" on the forum are. Believe me, I wish I had someone "local" to counsel me on buying property back then but now it's all 20/20 hindsight.... Regardless, only a couple of folks mentioned the "other" issues I brought up like quality of life, lack of leadership, truely affordable housing options other than a Matson container and of course the homeless. Knocking down a few camps here and there and or blaming Micronesians for the situation is really lame. Micronesians didn't ask for thier homeland to be nuked in the 50's no more so than Hawaiians wanted thier islands to be taken over..... but that's a whole nother issue in itself. Bottom line is, I did what was best for me and I explained why I did it. Seems a lot of people are in the same boat with me, especially those without multi-generations living in Hawaii to rely on as a support system. Again, thanks everyone for chiming in, no matter your point of view. Aloha to you all.
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