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Except that we don't have a free market healthcare system. A market solution to healthcare simply does not work.
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Originally Posted by Ariadne22
Once again, count on the Americans to do the right thing, after they have tried everything else, first.
Why don't you try Free Market health care?
Eliminate hospital monopolies. Make it illegal to own more than one hospital in a given Market. Make it illegal to collude to fix prices. Make price fixing illegal. Require transparency in pricing. Give doctors the freedom of association and remove all restrictions related to doctor/hospital relationships.
Once you lower the cost of medical care, the cost of health plan coverage will also decrease.
Allow Free Market health plan coverage, while maintaining pre-existing coverage. Eliminate the 1,000s of laws that State insurance regulators and commissions have placed on health plans, which drive up the costs. Allow individuals and families to purchase coverage a la carte.
Eliminate federal laws and tax codes. Repeal this IRS Tax Code to allow individuals to profit off of their catastrophic health plan coverage:
"Premiums paid by an employer on policies of group life insurance without cash surrender value covering the lives of his employees, or on policies of group health or accident insurance...do not constitute salary if such premiums are deductible by the employer under Section 23(a) of the IRS Code."
Source: Public Law 83-591, August 16, 1954; Internal Revenue Code of 1954, Section 106. For more information see the 1986 Internal Revenue Code.
End tax-payer subsidies to employers who provide group plans and end subsidies to employees who purchase employer-based plans (the purpose is to drive everyone into larger State-wide pools where it is claimed that costs will be cheaper).
That's just some of the things you need to do in order to have any semblance of a Free Market system.
^^LOL - Dear Mircea - I so enjoy your posts. What do you believe are the chances in this country of implementing anything that you propose??? Especially, this:
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Eliminate hospital monopolies. Make it illegal to own more than one hospital in a given Market.
A true free market imagines perfect knowledge on the part of the consumer.
Of course, there is no such thing, not even in something as mundane as buying a can of green beans.
But in situations where the knowledge gap is especially one sided, as is the case when extremely educated skilled personnel are providing a service with direct impact on life expectancy, then the market automatically becomes distorted.
So there will never be a free market in health care.
Since there can't be a free market, most UHC take the other tack which is to regulate it and thus try to even the playing field between consumer/provider/and payer.
They're not necessarily perfect, but if the objective is to provide a reasonable standard of care to the most people for the least cost.. they do all right.
Of course in a free market system, the whole point is simply to find equilibrium between supply and demand. Not necessarily to provide care affordably or to necessarily ensure a large # of people are able to receive care.
Because the market doesn't actually care if people die in the street..
Second, you REALLY think your employer is going to pass those dollars on to you,
I don't, but that wasn't my main point. As to 'taxes'... taxes and employers on the level of which we are talking is a joke. A total joke.
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Originally Posted by Qwerty
As for the key employee life insurance plans, yes, many companies do that for key employees, however, you can't take out life insurance on someone without them knowing. MOST key employee plans also come with a cash value that the key employee sees down the road as an intensive to stay with that company.
Decent people like yourself imagine it isn't possible to take out insurance on someone without their consent and/or knowledge. More worldly individuals, like myself, know that it is indeed quite possible. Employees at all levels are being insured with and without their knowledge as suits the objectives of the employer.
Did you know that many in Canada end up coming to America to have Heart surgeries etc? Do you understand why this is? Because the waiting lists are so long in Canada. My nieces husband is from Canada and readily admits their health care is not good at all. People complain about health care in England.
I know when we had to be on a HMO years ago here in California it was the WORSE care ever. Once we got a PPO - the world opened up. We received better care.
Hogwash brainwashed by right wing media. Years ago, you prioritized. My parents did not have health care at first and paid out of pocket in the 60's. They did what they had to do for their kids.
Today, I am all for health coverage for people who are struggling like my good friend whose the same age as I. He is also an American citizen. Let's take care of our citizens first and foremost...My friend can no longer work and was self employed for many-many years. He deserves coverage - Again, let's help the people who were born here and need the help. We have so many who need health coverage but when you come into our country illegally - expect hand outs that's just wrong.
You have to draw a line in the sand somewhere...
I would not be surprised that the increase in illegal immigrants corrupt our healthcare system. I don't remember it was this bad back in the 80s or 90s or even early 2000s.
And I also know many people who would like to retire prior to age 65 but are afraid to because of the uncertainty of having available health insurance prior to Medicare kicking it.
If they could retire, perhaps younger people could fill their slots.
My SO is British and her mother used to travel to see her several times a year. She has to take out 3rd party health insurance for travel to the U.S. She can (and does) travel to ANY other country on the planet at no additional cost, but travel to the U.S. requires an additional expense which amounts to about $500 USD, for a two week visit. At age 80 it doesn't matter what you are willing to pay, the UK will not insure you for travel to the U.S. if you have a major health indictment like a past heart attack or chronic ailment. 'M' has had a heart attack and also has a pacemaker. Not insurable by NHS for travel to the U.S., anywhere else in the world, yes, but not America. Am I getting through to people? Can you say Outlier, boys and girls?
For the last two years since turning 80, her mother has had to take out Lloyd's of London travel health insurance equivalent to $2000 USD, for a two week visit. This is in addition to airfare. Needless to say, this is probably the last year she will do this. She isn't rich. She has a high school education. But she owns her own home (paid off in 15 years) and vacations in Spain, South of France, Blackpool, Turkey, etc. but she does like to see her daughter. My SO is far better educated, but we just about make ends meet.
Americans do not even realize how well other citizens of First World Countries around the world can live on working class salaries! Too bad, because if they did... I don't think the country would survive the Revolution that would result. Obamagone is the new rallying cry of the "lets resume the race to the bottom" Right Wing. What race... we already won that one. The race now is to see how much worse than emerging economies America can do. Hospital acquired infections are the fifth leading cause of death in America. Do you imagine it is worse than that in India? You'd be wrong. It isn't. Hospital acquired infections are not a significant health impact in India. Or China. Or Cuba!
My niece is a doctor in London and her husband works for one of the FANG companies. They live like rats, very tight apartment, no room for family expansion. They have no money to travel to visit her FIL in USA, guess who has to pay for their airfare. Yeap, you guess it, her FIL in USA. I would refrain from generalizing if I were you.
This is very true. I still have relatives in Europe. Last time one visited, she thought our way of life - the pace - was nuts. They may not have McMansions, but they do have a comfortable life - and do a lot of travel and eating out - and seem far more relaxed, happier and in the moment.
Not the ones I know. They may live in an expensive home, but guess who pays for my SIL to come to USA. Yeap, you guess it, its US in USA. She has not been able to travel anywhere, unable to afford for nearly 10 years, after divorcing from her husband. I would be careful spreading genelization.
Everyone I know does a lot of travel and eating out???? Pace of life here is relaxed and most people seem happy. When I've traveled to Europe, I wouldn't say that people are happier there and they certainly don't have the same level of luxury that even the "working class" in the US has.
Exactly. It's all lies. It costs about GBP to fly to Spain or Italy, sounds impressive but it's like going from LA to SF.
My niece is a doctor in London and her husband works for one of the FANG companies. They live like rats, very tight apartment, no room for family expansion. They have no money to travel to visit her FIL in USA, guess who has to pay for their airfare. Yeap, you guess it, her FIL in USA. I would refrain from generalizing if I were you.
Well, you are not me - and if you choose to believe I was generalizing in order to prove your point, have at it.
Since I don't wish to engage further your far from infallible certitude and omniscience on every matter, best you are added to my ignore. Been contemplating this for a while. Now, it's done.
Ciao
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