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MOST cancer is not curable, especially if it is advanced. This is a fact, and it doesn't matter what you prefer to believe.
You can worship modern medicine like it was God, and expect it to save you from all diseases. But it won't.
Patients with advanced cancer are offered treatments, but all they do is extend life by a couple of years or months. And they are very sick the whole time.
That is what the cancer industry is mainly focused on -- developing drugs that cost a fortune and extend life just a bit more than an older drug. And these drugs sell because people are scared to die.
Wow ! if every one was as grim like you or given up, you wouldn't have a computer to type on, or the fingers to due to polio.
Do me a favor, save the propaganda for someone who asks for it. People like you regurgitate misinformation all over public spaces and target scared/vulnerable population. You indirectly may be a cause of someones death because they have a lymphoma which is highly curable and did not seek treatment because some idiot online thinks cancer kills everyone. Shame on you !
Also, MOST cancer is not curable YET!! when we find something to cure it, please stay in your cave and don't celebrate with the rest of us modern medicine worshipers.
When cancer is early and localized, they don't usually know if it would ever progress. They get rid of it with surgery, radiation, chemo, etc., and consider it to be cured. However, if it was not going to progress then it can't really be called a cure.
So the actual cure rates for many times of cancer are not really known.
Recently they have begun to acknowledge that most prostate cancer is benign, and would never cause disease or death if untreated. But benign prostate cancer was usually treated in the past, and all those cases were counted as cures.
There is a similar situation with breast cancer. Early localized breast cancer might not ever progress. But they have to treat it anyway, because they can't predict which will cause disease and which won't. All are counted as cures.
When cancer is early and localized, they don't usually know if it would ever progress. They get rid of it with surgery, radiation, chemo, etc., and consider it to be cured. However, if it was not going to progress then it can't really be called a cure.
So the actual cure rates for many times of cancer are not really known.
Recently they have begun to acknowledge that most prostate cancer is benign, and would never cause disease or death if untreated. But benign prostate cancer was usually treated in the past, and all those cases were counted as cures.
There is a similar situation with breast cancer. Early localized breast cancer might not ever progress. But they have to treat it anyway, because they can't predict which will cause disease and which won't. All are counted as cures.
We know many cancers will progress if not treated. For example, the leukemia my son had is 100% fatal if not treated. Your implication that early cancers that would not have progressed are a significant percentage of all cases is false. Prostate cancer is an exception, not the rule.
Prostate cancer is by definition not benign; if it were, then it would not be called cancer. Some prostate cancer is so slow growing that the man will die of something else, not the prostate cancer.
Cure rates are reported by stage. That bypasses the problem of early stages skewing the results.
When cancer is early and localized, they don't usually know if it would ever progress. They get rid of it with surgery, radiation, chemo, etc., and consider it to be cured. However, if it was not going to progress then it can't really be called a cure.
So the actual cure rates for many times of cancer are not really known.
Yes, yes it can...You are confusing "cancer" and "tumor."
A tumor, or lump or whatever you care to call it, can be benign or malignant, cancerous or non cancerous. A benign tumor often still needs to be removed, because it can grow and cause other problems, and because you need to make sure it isn't cancerous. If removal is too invasive, they often will simply biopsy it. But with a mole, for example, it could be a
Cancer, by definition, progresses. It is abnormal cell growth that will proliferate.
They don't hook you up to a chemo drip because you have a lump somewhere. They take the lump out, or biopsy it, and if its cancerous, then they decide if treatment is warranted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin
Recently they have begun to acknowledge that most prostate cancer is benign, and would never cause disease or death if untreated. But benign prostate cancer was usually treated in the past, and all those cases were counted as cures.
Wrong again.
They acknowledge that most prostate cancer is slow progressing enough that it doesn't merit treatment. I've known men to be diagnosed in their later years, and the doctor basically says, "You will die of something else before this becomes a problem."
That doesn't mean its benign. It means it isn't aggressive. There is a difference.
Take Strep Throat: we treat Strep because it can be cured quickly, and because it greatly reduces how long your contagious, and reduces the risk of scarlet fever and rheumatic fever and valve damage. BUT, most cases will resolve themselves within a week without treatment. Yet, you wouldn't say that curing strep throat, which would have resolved itself anyway, doesn't "count" as a cure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin
There is a similar situation with breast cancer. Early localized breast cancer might not ever progress. But they have to treat it anyway, because they can't predict which will cause disease and which won't. All are counted as cures.
I've never heard this. A lumpectomy of a tumor that is benign is not considered a cancer cure. A lumpectomy of a cancerous tumor might be (after treatment or whatever.)
We know many cancers will progress if not treated. For example, the leukemia my son had is 100% fatal if not treated. Your implication that early cancers that would not have progressed are a significant percentage of all cases is false. Prostate cancer is an exception, not the rule.
Prostate cancer is by definition not benign; if it were, then it would not be called cancer. Some prostate cancer is so slow growing that the man will die of something else, not the prostate cancer.
Cure rates are reported by stage. That bypasses the problem of early stages skewing the results.
Cure rates are reported as 5 year survival. So we really don't know if someone is cured just because they survived 5 years.
And when cancer is found early, survival time automatically increases. That is called lead-time bias. So it is very hard to tell what the cure rate is for early cancer. Especially since it is often not known whether the cancer is aggressive and dangerous or (relatively) benign.
When I refer to cancer as "benign" I mean it will never cause disease or death. Cancer is very often controlled or destroyed by the immune system. In fact, killing cancer is one of the immune system's everyday jobs.
Cancer that is found extremely early is unlikely to be a threat. But since it often can't be known if a cancer is a threat or not, treatment is necessary.
If someone has very early breast cancer, for example, and is treated and survives 5 years, that is counted as a cure. But we don't know if they would have survived 5 years anyway.
The cure rates for cancer have not been presented to the public in a way that clarifies all of this. That is why people have such exaggeratedly hopeful ideas about cancer treatment.
The medical industry has no reason to help you understand. Their profits are tremendous even without a cure.
Cure rates are reported as 5 year survival. So we really don't know if someone is cured just because they survived 5 years.
And when cancer is found early, survival time automatically increases. That is called lead-time bias. So it is very hard to tell what the cure rate is for early cancer. Especially since it is often not known whether the cancer is aggressive and dangerous or (relatively) benign.
When I refer to cancer as "benign" I mean it will never cause disease or death. Cancer is very often controlled or destroyed by the immune system. In fact, killing cancer is one of the immune system's everyday jobs.
Cancer that is found extremely early is unlikely to be a threat. But since it often can't be known if a cancer is a threat or not, treatment is necessary.
I don't think you know what the term "Cancer" means. Yes, your immune system can attack and kill pre-cancerous cells or developments. But if its to the level that its noticeable on a blood test, by physical manipulation, or visible, then that ship has sailed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin
If someone has very early breast cancer, for example, and is treated and survives 5 years, that is counted as a cure. But we don't know if they would have survived 5 years anyway.
What difference does it make? Early detection (of any disease) is infinitely better than invasive, sickening cures.
Its much better to treat hypertension before someone has a heart attack requiring open heart surgery.
Its much better to remove polyps found during a colonoscopy before you have to go carving in the colon.
I've never really heard someone that had a piece of skin cancer removed early on crowing about being a cancer survivor. I also don't see how its relevant if they would have lived another four years or another seven years. Nor do I see a problem with the medical community counting it as a "cure" because they know what to look for and are better at seeing it early.
You prattle on about lead time bias, but who cares? I certainly don't.
And, you act like cancer is unique in that early detection influences the cure rate. It isn't. Many other diseases and conditions are much more curable, controllable, etc caught early.
When cancer is early and localized, they don't usually know if it would ever progress. They get rid of it with surgery, radiation, chemo, etc., and consider it to be cured. However, if it was not going to progress then it can't really be called a cure.
So the actual cure rates for many times of cancer are not really known.
Recently they have begun to acknowledge that most prostate cancer is benign, and would never cause disease or death if untreated. But benign prostate cancer was usually treated in the past, and all those cases were counted as cures.
There is a similar situation with breast cancer. Early localized breast cancer might not ever progress. But they have to treat it anyway, because they can't predict which will cause disease and which won't. All are counted as cures.
You absolute F-ing moronic troll..
"Early localized breast cancer might not ever progress." yeah its called DCIS, and gues what IT IS NOT BREAST CANCER !!!
Every cancer will progress if you let it..
anyways, you have way too much free time and i think enjoy the retorts..
here is to hoping neither you or anyone you know get a "non progressing cancer" BECAUSE THEY.WILL.DIE , and you ll be the one to blame.
Cure rates are reported as 5 year survival. So we really don't know if someone is cured just because they survived 5 years.
And when cancer is found early, survival time automatically increases. That is called lead-time bias. So it is very hard to tell what the cure rate is for early cancer. Especially since it is often not known whether the cancer is aggressive and dangerous or (relatively) benign.
When I refer to cancer as "benign" I mean it will never cause disease or death. Cancer is very often controlled or destroyed by the immune system. In fact, killing cancer is one of the immune system's everyday jobs.
Cancer that is found extremely early is unlikely to be a threat. But since it often can't be known if a cancer is a threat or not, treatment is necessary.
If someone has very early breast cancer, for example, and is treated and survives 5 years, that is counted as a cure. But we don't know if they would have survived 5 years anyway.
The cure rates for cancer have not been presented to the public in a way that clarifies all of this. That is why people have such exaggeratedly hopeful ideas about cancer treatment.
The medical industry has no reason to help you understand. Their profits are tremendous even without a cure.
Survival rates are reported for five years because for many cancers those who survive five years will never have it recur. Survival is reported by stage at diagnosis. That allows the results to be evaluated without lead time bias.
You should not use the word "benign" when referring to any cancer. "Benign" has a specific definition with reference to tumors. It means not cancerous.
"Th public" needs only to discuss the issue with an oncologist to be advised about treatment for conditions which may not progress and never need treatment, such as prostate cancer. Watchful monitoring may be an option, with the realization that if the cancer does progress then the odds of survival amy be impacted by a delay in treatment.
"The medical industry" has no reason to keep people sick. That idea is asinine.
Yes, yes it can...You are confusing "cancer" and "tumor."
A tumor, or lump or whatever you care to call it, can be benign or malignant, cancerous or non cancerous. A benign tumor often still needs to be removed, because it can grow and cause other problems, and because you need to make sure it isn't cancerous. If removal is too invasive, they often will simply biopsy it. But with a mole, for example, it could be a
Cancer, by definition, progresses. It is abnormal cell growth that will proliferate.
They don't hook you up to a chemo drip because you have a lump somewhere. They take the lump out, or biopsy it, and if its cancerous, then they decide if treatment is warranted.
Wrong again.
They acknowledge that most prostate cancer is slow progressing enough that it doesn't merit treatment. I've known men to be diagnosed in their later years, and the doctor basically says, "You will die of something else before this becomes a problem."
That doesn't mean its benign. It means it isn't aggressive. There is a difference.
Take Strep Throat: we treat Strep because it can be cured quickly, and because it greatly reduces how long your contagious, and reduces the risk of scarlet fever and rheumatic fever and valve damage. BUT, most cases will resolve themselves within a week without treatment. Yet, you wouldn't say that curing strep throat, which would have resolved itself anyway, doesn't "count" as a cure.
I've never heard this. A lumpectomy of a tumor that is benign is not considered a cancer cure. A lumpectomy of a cancerous tumor might be (after treatment or whatever.)
You have completely misunderstood what I wrote. I know that a tumor is not necessarily cancer. But I was talking about cancer that is not aggressive.
There is a test for the aggressiveness of prostate cancer, but as far as I know there is no test for the aggressiveness of breast cancer.
Cancer that is not aggressive can be controlled by the immune system, and may never cause disease.
The immune system routinely destroys and controls cancer, all the time, in everyone.
You have completely misunderstood what I wrote. I know that a tumor is not necessarily cancer. But I was talking about cancer that is not aggressive.
There is a test for the aggressiveness of prostate cancer, but as far as I know there is no test for the aggressiveness of breast cancer.
Cancer that is not aggressive can be controlled by the immune system, and may never cause disease.
The immune system routinely destroys and controls cancer, all the time, in everyone.
Yes, the immune system continuously removes potentially cancerous cells. Those cells are not cancers. Some cancers may be less aggressive than others, but they are not all cancers or most of any cancers. None of this has any relevance to your assertion that medicine has not lengthened the average lifespan in the US.
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