Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I think everyone just really needs to look for WHY this happens. I don't care what doctor said what up to this point...This gardasil is really scary to me because the body if healthy can fight off HPV. I don't know if I would mess around with skipping things like smallpox or polio....But the flu etc...I personally lived through all that when I was a kid and am going to keep on toughing that out. I never get a flu shot and have not had the flu in years.
I think that the vaccines do trigger something in some people. Putting anything into your body,even food, can change how your cells replicate. So to think injecting things into your system will never do that just does not make sense. It can keep you from getting sick..so why not have it be able to do something else too? I totally think it can. I don't think our bodies are made to take injections as its a new thing for the human race really. I wonder if any of these flu shot reactions happened in people that got the nasal mist version vs. the shot. That would be something interesting to look into. Maybe the mist gives the body time to deal with it in a more natural way? Maybe that is why they are pushing it too? (without saying it outright)
You make your medical decisions based on quackery,,,and I will base mine on science based medicine...You know, REAL studies and publications backed by real research. Now, run along...go email a photo to ""Dr"" Moulden for a BRAINGAURD scan...He can look at a photo and diagnose your vaccine injury...over the internet. What a "revolutionary medical discovery"... Kudos dude and best of luck to you..
I'm with you. Please show all of these quacks the scientifically sound, peer reviewed results of the double blind, efficacy testing that has been done proving that all of the vaccines, including the flu, work, and prevent the diseases they are supposed to prevent. Just give these people the links to those studies. Surely there must be tons of them. After all, everybody KNOWS they work, right? So nobody would just take some company's word for it would they? That wouldn't be very smart or scientific. So, just for those conspiracy nuts out there ... show them the proof, and put this baby to bed, OK?
Oh ... you can't? That's probably because there have been no studies performed with regard to if these vaccines actually work. All of the studies are about whether they are safe or not ... we just automatically "assume" they work, because ... well .. everybody knows that they work, right? I mean, a pharmaceutical company wouldn't sell you something that doesn't work, would they? And surely the FDA wouldn't approve something that hasn't been proven to at least work most of the time, right? Oh... the FDA doesn't require proof that they actually work ? That's unbelievable? Believe it!
Here, for your reading pleasure is a vaccine proponent at Science-Based Medicine scoffing at the idea that vaccines don't work, and his very scientific tap dance around the subject. Read it carefully.
The bullet points of this nonsensical double talk are:
1) Vaccine makers have to guess which strain will circulate 9 months later
(Since flu viruses can mutate in a matter of days, guesses are often wrong)
2) Sometimes they don't guess right, and that "can" decrease the efficacy.
(No, if they don't guess right, the vaccine is completely useless)
3) Don't ask me for the evidence, I have a life and a family. Do your own grunt work. (Don't ask me for studies that don't exist, just trust me that they do)
4) In a bit of a medical irony, the more likely a patient is to need protection from the vaccine, the less likely they are to get a protective antibody response from the vaccine.
(A bit of a medical irony? Ha! There you have it folks ... those that need the protection aren't likely to respond to the vaccine! .. The converse is also true .. if your immune system is strong enough to develop a response to the vaccine, it was strong enough to protect you from the virus itself, and didn't need a vaccine)
5) Vaccination rates are often suboptimal to gain "heard" immunity
(Herd immunity is a theory only .. and the theory is dead if the vaccine doesn't produce immunity in those that need it !!! .. see #4)
6) It's difficult to prove efficacy in clinical studies, and there are a lot of anti-vaccine goofs out there that want 100% effective and safe vaccines. The influenza vaccine is not 100% efficacious in preventing disease, but it is as close to 100% safe, and much safer than the disease. (So it may not work all of the time, but its much safer than the disease? So is orange juice, and that has ZERO serious side effects)
The entire diatribe is a fast dance around the fact that the vaccines don't work. They don't work for the people who need it, and not needed for the people it might work for!
The writer insists that they do work, while giving all of the reasons why they might not work in this instance, or that case, or under some conditions.
Please read this article to get a clear understanding of double talk at it's very finest.
So the next time we talk about those very rare but serious side effects, and somebody uses this wonderful excuse about the benefits far outweighing the risks ... let's try and remember that those "benefits" are pie in the sky beliefs, with absolutely no evidence ... and no scientific proof to back them up. OK?
And let's also refrain from name calling when reasonable people display a modicum of common sense by asking simple questions about safety and efficacy of these vaccines.
If anything can be considered quackery ... it's the double talkers who's only answer to these questions is "trust me".
Personally, I'm sick to death of hearing that vaccines cause autism--they do not. How many children are exposed to horrible diseases because parents believe this.
Please don't die.
Generally, medicine deals with statistics and 'normal' conforming physiology. True, most children do not get autism from vaccines. Some may.
It was thought, way back, that kids could not get polio from the live vaccine that they were dishing out. That was proven to be false. Yet, every kid did not get polio fromt he vaccine.
Remember when another vaccine was given out - under Carter? Was it another swine flu? Anyway, it was pronounced safe and then quietly (well, an attempt at 'quiet') taken off the market because the vaccine was found to cause more illness than the disease it supposedly protected us from.
The words of experts are easily taken back but they cannot return the fullness of life that is taken from the victims who trusted them originally.
Life is so full of a multitude of variables. We cannot test every product for every situation or every genetic combination.
This swine flu vaccine is so poorly tested that the government passed that law disallowing people who are harmed by the vaccine from suing the manufacturers.
That is what gets my hackles up.
I have read that 50% may voluntarily get the vaccine and that is not enough for herd immunity. Ok, who among us is willing to play dice for the sake of the herd?
I'm with you. Please show all of these quacks the scientifically sound, peer reviewed results of the double blind, efficacy testing that has been done proving that all of the vaccines, including the flu, work, and prevent the diseases they are supposed to prevent. Just give these people the links to those studies. Surely there must be tons of them. After all, everybody KNOWS they work, right? So nobody would just take some company's word for it would they? That wouldn't be very smart or scientific. So, just for those conspiracy nuts out there ... show them the proof, and put this baby to bed, OK?
Oh ... you can't? That's probably because there have been no studies performed with regard to if these vaccines actually work. All of the studies are about whether they are safe or not ... we just automatically "assume" they work, because ... well .. everybody knows that they work, right? I mean, a pharmaceutical company wouldn't sell you something that doesn't work, would they? And surely the FDA wouldn't approve something that hasn't been proven to at least work most of the time, right? Oh... the FDA doesn't require proof that they actually work ? That's unbelievable? Believe it!
Here, for your reading pleasure is a vaccine proponent at Science-Based Medicine scoffing at the idea that vaccines don't work, and his very scientific tap dance around the subject. Read it carefully.
The bullet points of this nonsensical double talk are:
1) Vaccine makers have to guess which strain will circulate 9 months later
(Since flu viruses can mutate in a matter of days, guesses are often wrong)
2) Sometimes they don't guess right, and that "can" decrease the efficacy.
(No, if they don't guess right, the vaccine is completely useless)
3) Don't ask me for the evidence, I have a life and a family. Do your own grunt work. (Don't ask me for studies that don't exist, just trust me that they do)
4) In a bit of a medical irony, the more likely a patient is to need protection from the vaccine, the less likely they are to get a protective antibody response from the vaccine.
(A bit of a medical irony? Ha! There you have it folks ... those that need the protection aren't likely to respond to the vaccine! .. The converse is also true .. if your immune system is strong enough to develop a response to the vaccine, it was strong enough to protect you from the virus itself, and didn't need a vaccine)
5) Vaccination rates are often suboptimal to gain "heard" immunity
(Herd immunity is a theory only .. and the theory is dead if the vaccine doesn't produce immunity in those that need it !!! .. see #4)
6) It's difficult to prove efficacy in clinical studies, and there are a lot of anti-vaccine goofs out there that want 100% effective and safe vaccines. The influenza vaccine is not 100% efficacious in preventing disease, but it is as close to 100% safe, and much safer than the disease. (So it may not work all of the time, but its much safer than the disease? So is orange juice, and that has ZERO serious side effects)
The entire diatribe is a fast dance around the fact that the vaccines don't work. They don't work for the people who need it, and not needed for the people it might work for!
The writer insists that they do work, while giving all of the reasons why they might not work in this instance, or that case, or under some conditions.
Please read this article to get a clear understanding of double talk at it's very finest.
So the next time we talk about those very rare but serious side effects, and somebody uses this wonderful excuse about the benefits far outweighing the risks ... let's try and remember that those "benefits" are pie in the sky beliefs, with absolutely no evidence ... and no scientific proof to back them up. OK?
And let's also refrain from name calling when reasonable people display a modicum of common sense by asking simple questions about safety and efficacy of these vaccines.
If anything can be considered quackery ... it's the double talkers who's only answer to these questions is "trust me".
You really posted a blog? You cherry pick a blog and that is your rebuttal? Are you going to discredit UNICEF and WHO and say generally that vaccines don't work. That is why they are all over the world vaccinating poor countries at no cost...Just for the heck of it right? Because we all know deep down they don't work... So lets just waste time and man power to a well known meaningless cause...oh wait, the disease rate has decreased... that is not good enough proof though right?
People do not die from seasonal flu vaccines. People do die from seasonal flu. The fact of the matter is your chance of suffering a SERIOUS side effect from a vaccine is slim to none. You are more likely to get the flu.
Have you ever had a titer drawn? I think those are proof of vaccine efficacy. No? Person gets vaccine, has titer drawn, shows immunity...vaccine worked. I am immune to Hep B due to the vaccine. I know that for a fact. Did it the vaccine work? I would say so.
Is that not scientific evidence? How about the decrease of the disease occurance? Not good enough either?
I just looked up Published documents of vaccine efficacy and there are tons of them... REAL publications... not blogs. Check them out...
And it is not the vaccine makers that 'guess' which strain will be with us the next season...They are epidemiologists. But I guess they are not legit either... right?
That is why they are all over the world vaccinating poor countries at no cost...Just for the heck of it right? Because we all know deep down they don't work... So lets just waste time and man power to a well known meaningless cause...oh wait, the disease rate has decreased... that is not good enough proof though right?
Danielle, I'm NOT attacking you, but I just wanted to jump into the conversation and say that I completely disagree with your statements above. I fully understand that you have your own view, and that any information that does not run parallel to your thinking, you discard it. So really, this post is for other people who are looking at this.
Anyhow, first of all, nothing is free, including the "free vaccines" that are offered here in America; we pay for that out of our taxes in one way or another. Secondly, there is a STRONG link between the smallpox vaccine campaign in the 1970's and the explosion of Aids later in Africa. "The Aids epidemic may have been triggered by the mass vaccination campaign which eradicated smallpox. The World Health Organization, which masterminded the 13-year campaign, is studying new scientific evidence suggesting that immunization with the smallpox vaccine Vaccinia awakened the unsuspected, dormant human immuno defence virus infection (HIV)."
You make your medical decisions based on quackery,,,and I will base mine on science based medicine...You know, REAL studies and publications backed by real research.
Danielle, if people want to eat grass to "cure" themselves they should be allowed to do so. It's very arrogant and absurd to believe that you, or the medial mafia is the source of all medical knowledge.
Secondly, you say you base your medical decisions on "real research" but yet you fail to take notice that the "research" is funded by the drug manufacturers themselves or the Government so you have HUGE conflict of interest!
"Research funded by drug companies is more likely to produce results that favour the sponsor's product, reveals a new study."
What is the problem with challenging a fear mongering post? I honestly do not care who eats grass to cure what...but it is a little irritating to read complete bunk that freaks people out. I ask for the OP to back up the claim...what is wrong with that?
I never once mentioned anything about free vaccines in this country. I talked about poor countries receiving vaccinations from UNICEF and WHO. I know when a free vaccine is offered here that it is ultimitaly the public that pays for it. That was never a question. So what is your point with that?
And sorry...not all research if funded by Drug companies. If you know where to look, you can find 'the real deal'...obviously you have not found them...
Smallpox and AIDS...post some links to your 'research' you have found...scientific data...publications...that is a bold claim you feel strongly about so how did you come to that conclusion.
Danielle, I'm NOT attacking you, but I just wanted to jump into the conversation and say that I completely disagree with your statements above. I fully understand that you have your own view, and that any information that does not run parallel to your thinking, you discard it. So really, this post is for other people who are looking at this.
Anyhow, first of all, nothing is free, including the "free vaccines" that are offered here in America; we pay for that out of our taxes in one way or another. Secondly, there is a STRONG link between the smallpox vaccine campaign in the 1970's and the explosion of Aids later in Africa. "The Aids epidemic may have been triggered by the mass vaccination campaign which eradicated smallpox. The World Health Organization, which masterminded the 13-year campaign, is studying new scientific evidence suggesting that immunization with the smallpox vaccine Vaccinia awakened the unsuspected, dormant human immuno defence virus infection (HIV)."
What is the problem with challenging a fear mongering post? .
THis post was only meant to inform. There are two sides to this just like anything else. I could very well say that about your positions!
Lets keep an open mind folks.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
