Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-25-2011, 11:32 AM
 
Location: West Virginia
16,675 posts, read 15,672,301 times
Reputation: 10924

Advertisements

Nathan Hale was a spy. Whether he said that thing about one life, I don't know. However, it makes a good story, even if it's not good history.

I think Lincoln's Gettysburg Address has some great thoughts to repeat on Memorial Day.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-25-2011, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 24,122,692 times
Reputation: 21239
Hale was a romantic sort of patriot and the noble sentiments he supposedly expressed at his execution help mask the fact that he was a lousy spy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-25-2011, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Wheaton, Illinois
10,261 posts, read 21,753,123 times
Reputation: 10454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Hale was a romantic sort of patriot and the noble sentiments he supposedly expressed at his execution help mask the fact that he was a lousy spy.

I'll betcha Andre wished Hale had been a better spy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-25-2011, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 24,122,692 times
Reputation: 21239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishtom29 View Post
I'll betcha Andre wished Hale had been a better spy.
Major Andre was Benedict Arnold's British contact, I'm unaware that he had anything to do with Hale's capture or death.

Hale was caught when he was seated in a tavern and was recognized by Major Robert Rogers (who may have been Hale's cousin, there is some confusion about this) of the Queen's Rangers, a loyalist unit serving under Howe. Rogers joined Hale, pretended that he was also on the American side, and got Hale to admit who he was and what he was about. Hale was arrested and the papers he was carrying which gave him away, were found on his person. As I said, Hale was a lousy spy, extremely easy to catch.

Apparently Hale made a much longer final speech than just those "Only regret..etc" words suggest. There were numerous witnesses to the execution and Hale seemed to have at least included something which was near to the "..regret.." remark, or words which meant more or less the same thing. One witness said that the comment was "If I had ten thousand lives to lay down, I would lay them all down".. in defence of his country.

The exact famous words were reported by British Captain John Montresor who was there at the hanging and passed Hale's comment on to Captain William Hull who included them in his post war memoirs.

Montressor had spent Hale's last night alive with him, talking late into the night, and he came to admire Hale's idealism and courage. After Hale's execution, Montressor sent a messenger to the American lines under a flag of truce to report Hale's death, including Montressor's version of Hale's last words. That is why "I only regret that I have but one life to give for my country" became the accepted version among Americans.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-25-2011, 05:36 PM
 
Location: Wheaton, Illinois
10,261 posts, read 21,753,123 times
Reputation: 10454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Major Andre was Benedict Arnold's British contact, I'm unaware that he had anything to do with Hale's capture or death.

Washington was bitter about Hale's death and took it out on Andre when he was captured; refusing all pleas to spare him (even an unusual personal appeal from Clinton) or to at least shoot rather than hang him.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-25-2011, 05:53 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 24,122,692 times
Reputation: 21239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishtom29 View Post
Washington was bitter about Hale's death and took it out on Andre when he was captured; refusing all pleas to spare him (even an unusual personal appeal from Clinton) or to at least shoot rather than hang him.
Oh, okay, I wasn't aware of the reference.

Was that actually the case? Unlike Hale, Andre received a full trial with senior American officers presiding. We also know that Washington was willing to hand Andre back to the Brits if they would deliver Arnold back to the Americans to stand trial for treason. I had always figured that Andre's death sentence was to put some teeth into that offer. Andre had been very close to General Clinton and the threat to Andres' life increased the pressure on him to cut Arnold loose. No deal could be reached, so Clinton then asked Washington if Andre could at least be shot as a soldier rather than hanged as a spy. Washington responded that Andre had been convicted of spying and the rules of war called for hanging.

I do not recall coming across any references to Washington being motivated by a desire to avenge Nathan Hale.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-25-2011, 07:28 PM
 
Location: Wheaton, Illinois
10,261 posts, read 21,753,123 times
Reputation: 10454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
I do not recall coming across any references to Washington being motivated by a desire to avenge Nathan Hale.

I have but there's no doubt his anger at Arnold added to Washington's resolve to see Andre dance on thin air. And it's not like Andre had anything else coming.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-25-2011, 08:35 PM
Status: " Charleston South Carolina" (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: home...finally, home .
8,815 posts, read 21,280,851 times
Reputation: 20102
I think the poem "Dover Beach" by Matthew Arnold says it all.
__________________
******************


People may not recall what you said to them, but they will always remember how you made them feel .
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-25-2011, 09:34 PM
Status: "Censorship a degree of power" (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: Glen Mills
938 posts, read 1,228,891 times
Reputation: 617
Irish Tom and Nancy - great dialogue. I'm humbled by your knowledge. Was there confusion between Hale and Arnold here?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-26-2011, 11:06 PM
Status: "Censorship a degree of power" (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: Glen Mills
938 posts, read 1,228,891 times
Reputation: 617
Default More on Nathan Hale

You got my curiosity up. Nathan was from Ct. which is where my family roots lie -- Litchfield CT -- and in our family line is an Asa Barnes who hosted Rochambeau who assited us and battled at Yorktown. I was amazed to see he died at age 21 yrs. This may account for his inexperience as a spy. Not much time to attain seniority in that position. His father emigrated to Mass in 1746. Hale died in September 1776. He attended college at Yale and at a young age attained the rank of Captain. I would judge that those who bestow rank saw something in this young man as we would today for him to take up an interest in serving when his life was before him with an educated status. It appears his intentions may have been to be a Christian Minister. Yep!!! I picture young Hale pondering and saying: ""This just isn't right and I must do something"" and that he did. He was a teacher. He enrolled in the militia not yet of age. At a meeting to discuss the Battle of Lexington he stated: "Let us March immediately" and "Never lay down our arms until we obtain our independence". You know if Ian Fleming would do a book on this young man it would be called "The spy who loved his country". I have problems making light of such an individual and to say he was a "dumb spy" is as disrespectful as to say : "They who serve deserve to die." He was noble and I guess if you are of English descent and think the Colonies should have gone along with the program then I guess he was just a "Dumb spy" in my book he's a hero.

Last edited by Norm Barnes; 05-26-2011 at 11:12 PM.. Reason: Content
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top