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I'm old enough to have seen a change in the media treatment of the Nazis and the Holocaust evolve over the years, also have lived and worked in enough places and befriended enough people of non-Western backgroud to notice that the Holocaust is treated differently in other societies (but nobody I met in that group denies that it happened).
For example, while we all know that Auschwitz has been preserved, not too many Westerners know that the shettels (the Jewish peasant villages remembered ony in the romanticized Fiddler on the Roof) continued to linger as ghost towns in many parts of Eastern Europe for many years after World War II ended (although the Iron Curtain mentality of 1945-1980 discouraged travel and tended to passively suppress this knowledge. (A couple of years ago I attempted to bring up this point with a young female Polish tourist, and was answered with silence and a professed ignorance.)
The point I seek to make here is that certain groups of self-designated "opinion leaders" holding prominent positions within our mass media tend to mildly distort the actual facts of this barbarism to suit their own ends, The changes are small, but if allowed to endure over long periods of tiome while other versions are ignored, they become accepted as a true representation of history.
Admittedly, I skirted the formal Humanities courses as an undergraduate, but I notice that with a few exceptions (the book reviews by critic and local TV hostess Constance Frye Martinson are one of the few positive examples I can think of), very little attention to the centuries of frustration and stagnation that gave rise to the evils of the Holocaust have emerged in the media; it's just not a very "trendy" subject for a market focusted on short-term pursuits and gratifications.
Last edited by 2nd trick op; 03-07-2013 at 04:34 PM..
And I am just old, too old for all this read between the lines wink, wink bs. For example
The point I seek to make here is that certain groups of self-designated "opinion leaders" holding prominent positions within our mass media tend to mildly distort the actual facts of this barbarism to suit their own ends, The changes are small, but if allowed to endure over long periods of tiome while other versions are ignored, they become accepted as a true representation of history.
Who are these "certain groups" wink, wink.
Who are these self-designated "opinion leaders" wink, wink.
Who is this "our mass media?"
What are these "mildly distorted actual facts?"
What are these "own ends?"
What is being "ignored?"
What is the "true representation of history?"
Quote:
very little attention to the centuries of frustration and stagnation that gave rise to the evils of the Holocaust have emerged in the media; it's just not a very "trendy" subject for a market focusted on short-term pursuits and gratifications.
Well help us out here, this is the history forum, so cast a little light on those frustrations and stagnations that gave rise to the Holocaust.
"Opinion leaders" was a term I learned in a Poli Sci course many years ago -- it means nothing more than those within any grouip seeking influence who have the savvy to frame the agenda by which that group will further advance itself; that certain facts or actions will be noted, remembered and emphasiszed more than others. The process is continuous, and it can be practiced by any part of the ideological spectrum, but I believe it to be an important part of the process by which "history" is shaped.
Quote:
Well help us out here, this is the history forum, so cast a little light on those frustrations and stagnations that gave rise to the Holocaust.
With pleasure; As I've mentioned in another post, I grew up in the Sixties, in a community where the old tensions between older WASP neighborhoods and latter-day immigrants still existed (albeit more along the parents, and grandparents, than among my generation); because of this many issues that wouldn't raise an eyebrow in Humanities I (such as the early Chrisitan prohibition against usury, which helped Jews in the Middle Ages, but fueled resentments among Gentiles), were discreetly skirted.
That pattern exists with regard to many controversies, and in many forms. It is the proper role of an impartial journalistic community to air as many viewpoints as possible, but until fairly recently, the so-called "Mainstream Media" held an adviantage, and there are quite a few at this forum who don't like seeing them "called out" about it.
Last edited by 2nd trick op; 03-09-2013 at 08:16 PM..
^^^^^^ I don't think you've done enough to explain your previous post more clearly. I know that there was a long tradition of anti-semitism in Europe that existed before the Holocaust, and great frustrations in Germany over the fallout from the Treaty of Versailles (as well as political and social upheaval that had greatly destabilized the nation), and that both of these elements combined to help make Hitler and the Holocaust possible. But I would like to hear more about what "frustrations and stagnations" you believe gave rise to the Holocaust.
It's important for us to state our opinions and beliefs clearly in this forum so that we can debate various subjects properly, knowing exactly what other members have posted without having to guess or make assumptions because they were vague or unclear about something in a post.
A good start would be answering each of ovcatto's questions re: your initial post. That would help us understand what point you are trying to make and hopefully contribute to the debate.
And I am just old, too old for all this read between the lines wink, wink bs. For example
The point I seek to make here is that certain groups of self-designated "opinion leaders" holding prominent positions within our mass media tend to mildly distort the actual facts of this barbarism to suit their own ends, The changes are small, but if allowed to endure over long periods of tiome while other versions are ignored, they become accepted as a true representation of history.
Who are these "certain groups" wink, wink.
Who are these self-designated "opinion leaders" wink, wink.
Who is this "our mass media?"
What are these "mildly distorted actual facts?"
What are these "own ends?"
What is being "ignored?"
What is the "true representation of history?"
Well help us out here, this is the history forum, so cast a little light on those frustrations and stagnations that gave rise to the Holocaust.
^^^^^^ I don't think you've done enough to explain your previous post more clearly. I know that there was a long tradition of anti-semitism in Europe that existed before the Holocaust, and great frustrations in Germany over the fallout from the Treaty of Versailles (as well as political and social upheaval that had greatly destabilized the nation), and that both of these elements combined to help make Hitler and the Holocaust possible. But I would like to hear more about what "frustrations and stagnations" you believe gave rise to the Holocaust.
It's important for us to state our opinions and beliefs clearly in this forum so that we can debate various subjects properly, knowing exactly what other members have posted without having to guess or make assumptions because they were vague or unclear about something in a post.
A good start would be answering each of ovcatto's questions re: your initial post. That would help us understand what point you are trying to make and hopefully contribute to the debate.
Thanks.
OK -- I can easily go a little deeper. To begin with, it needs to be generally understood that the tensions between Gentile and Jew in Central and Eastern Europe go back for several centuries. The Jews were expelled from Spain (and the Inquisition) at the same time that saw the end of Feudalism, the Renaissence, the Reformation, and the colonization of the New World. And it was a very bloody epoch in human history.
The reasoning behind those prejudices is seldom discussed, but it goes very deep, and it's sometimes passed subtly between generations. A substantial part of my ancestry/extraction is drawn from German agrarians who settled in Eastern Pennsylvania after the failed Revolution of 1848, and many of whom had ancestors lost in the Napolenic wars. My home county of Columbia (Bloomsburg) was notorious for "Copperhead" sentiment during the Civil War, and of "Nativist" sentiments during the 1930's.
There were economic consequences to this. The farmers of my father's, and grandfather's day depended heavily on seasonal/casual labor supplied by the local "Poor District" -- a forerunner of the present-day Unemployment Compensation and welfare systems. When the New Deal brought cash payents as a substitue, the labor supply of a lot of farms and marginal small business dried up -- and that brought some hardships. The "brain trust" of the New Deal (which was also spewing forth some convenient anti-business rhetoric at the time) had a disproportionate representation of East Coast, often-Jewish intellectuals.
I've tried to convey this point in a manner that implies no personal resentment on my part. But a middle-aged man who's confronted with a sudden increase in his burdens, and no answer to it except to risk and liquidate his hard-won equity wouldn't always be so delicate. And the media and political infrastucture by which imbalances such as this are addressed in a developed society did not exist in either America or the Europe of eighty years ago.
Prejudiciial attidutes often have many origins and sidelights, they linger for a very long time, and can be almost impossible to change; and if a demagogue finds a way to marshall them, the consequences can be tragic.
Last edited by 2nd trick op; 03-10-2013 at 01:04 PM..
OK -- I can easily go a little deeper. To begin with, it needs to be generally understood that the tensions between Gentile and Jew in Central and Eastern Europe go back for several centuries. The Jews were expelled from Spain (and the Inquisition) at the same time that saw the end of Feudalism, the Renaissence, the Reformation, and the colonization of the New World. And it was a very bloody epoch in human history.
The reasoning behind those prejudices is seldom discussed, but it goes very deep, and it's sometimes passed subtly between generations. A substantial part of my ancestry/extraction is drawn from German agrarians who settled in Eastern Pennsylvania after the failed Revolution of 1848, and many of whom had ancestors lost in the Napolenic wars. My home county of Columbia (Bloomsburg) was notorious for "Copperhead" sentiment during the Civil War, and of "Nativist" sentiments during the 1930's.
There were economic consequences to this. The farmers of my father's, and grandfather's day depended heavily on seasonal/casual labor supplied by the local "Poor District" -- a forerunner of the present-day Unemployment Compensation and welfare systems. When the New Deal brought cash payents as a substitue, the labor supply of a lot of farms and marginal small business dried up -- and that brought some hardships. The "brain trust" of the New Deal (which was also spewing forth some convenient anti-business rhetoric at the time) had a disproportionate representation of East Coast, often-Jewish intellectuals.
I've tried to convey this point in a manner that implies no personal resentment on my part. But a middle-aged man who's confronted with a sudden increase in his burdens, and no answer to it except to risk and liquidate his hard-won equity wouldn't always be so delicate. And the media and political infrastucture by which imbalances such as this are addressed in a developed society did not exist in either America or the Europe of eighty years ago.
Prejudiciial attidutes often have many origins and sidelights, they linger for a very long time, and can be almost impossible to change; and if a demagogue finds a way to marshall them, the consequences can be tragic.
Okay, you started off talking about Europe but then suddenly switched to American issues. The New Deal, East Coast Jewish intellectuals and German farmers in East Pennsylvania are all very interesting, but have nothing to do with the Holocaust.
Okay, you started off talking about Europe but then suddenly switched to American issues. The New Deal, East Coast Jewish intellectuals and German farmers in East Pennsylvania are all very interesting, but have nothing (?) to do with the Holocaust.
I'm trying to point out that all prejudices have deep roots -- and that some of those trying to use brutalities such as the Holocaust to arouse sympathy among the less broadly exposed/educated often have deep prejudices, or agendae of their own -- and that the folly we call Political Correctness, spewed forth mostly by the so-called "Mainstream Media" is a prominent example.
It's mostly a matter of who seeks to lead (and manipulate) who.
I'm trying to point out that all prejudices have deep roots -- and that some of those trying to use brutalities such as the Holocaust to arouse sympathy among the less broadly exposed/educated often have deep prejudices, or agendae of their own -- and that the folly we call Political Correctness, spewed forth mostly by the so-called "Mainstream Media" is a prominent example.
It's mostly a matter of who seeks to lead (and manipulate) who.
Please provide some examples of the "political correctness, spewed forth mostly by the so-called "Mainstream Media" that you are talking about.
I'm interested in knowing if most of us share these "examples" or not. For example, if one example is that "Ron Paul is a crackpot" than I largely agree with the "mainstream media".
Please provide some examples of the "political correctness, spewed forth mostly by the so-called "Mainstream Media" that you are talking about.
Two words: "Global Warming", which is a reflex-provoking oversimplification, designed to recruit an advocacy for another layer of regulation to "solve" a problem for which any technical response is still far from the possibility of implementation
as opposed to "climate change" which is an issue worthy of seious study by the professionals, without the cuddly polar-bear appeals designed to manipulate the largely non-technical or anti-technical audience
There are many more, but this one clearly illustrates that among the Politically Correct ... an ounce of emotion trumps a ton of reasoning.
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