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I know a lot. I have a Masters in History. There is not one untruth in my post.
The fact that some of it was unintelligible to you says more about you than I.
I see you have a high opinion of yourself. No wise person would ever say they know a lot about anything. The fact that you have an MA in history and still don't know basic facts about ancient human civilization tells me either you're lying or you went to a very poor school to obtain your degree (now is probably the point where you get all angry and tell me you went to Oxford or some such nonsense). Combine that with the fact that you don't seem to believe the Holocaust happened and I dare say you've completely discredited yourself. Your previous post is unintelligible to me because it makes no bloody sense and has no point.
Well, that's just plain wrong of you to say. I never said I have a high opinion of myself.
I do not have a high opinion of myself. It's not about me. I was only responding to
an insult directed at me by someone who objected to what I said, and responded
by making the point known that I am degreed in the subject. That doesn't mean
you will get the truth at most colleges today. It means simply that I am not
incompetent.
There is nothing in history or archaeology making your point valid. The vast
majorities of peoples did not practice tribe-internal human sacrifice. Some only
practiced "sacrifice" of already slain enemies. It also was not my point to suggest
that the ancient Hebrews/Israelites when in their time of disobedience to Yahweh
sacrificed children to idols; that somehow these deeds suggest a lasting predisposition.
My sole innocent point was that the phrase "holocaust", the actual meaning of the word,
originates from those sacrifices, and that is all which I actually said concerning this.
Concerning kabbalah, six million is an iconic mystical number associated
with fulfilling wishes in babylonian gematria. It is a "lucky" number derived
from esoteric charts such as this: http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4027/...bd895335_b.jpg
It first appeared as a number of dying jews in 1900, as papers in the U.S. published
advertisements by jewish groups claiming 6 million jews were being killed in Russia.
These groups were still trying to raise $ off soft-hearted Americans even after the Soviet revolution
was complete. Evidently, the six million were still dying there, starving from all the
farms they stole from the Christian russian peasantry.
No response is necessary. I prefer not to make long-winded posts. I am
not a natural typist, and for example did not write my papers by typing them,
so my natural thought process is in handwriting.
Anyway, know that I am not a bigoted person in any way. I have pursued
the truth for many years. good day.
Read about Stalin's Gulags. Nobody gives a damn about the 25+ million who died in the Russian slave labor camps. And to even mention this somehow makes others accuse one of being anti-Semitic.
This is not the subject here. Feel free to start a thread about Stalin if he is your interest. Go right ahead! Love to read it!
Except there will be no such thread. And here is the reason. You and others like you, only like to bring up Stalin when The Holocaust is being discussed.
The Holocaust is special and unique to many Americans for many reasons. Some of us have relatives who liberated the concentration camps and were never quite the same after what they saw. Others are Jewish and lost relatives there. Still others have met people, many people who survived concentration camps. And others, have visited East-Central Europe, which today is still dotted which the remnants of Hitler's deadly rampage across Europe, which, like it or not focused most intently on the extermination of the Jews.
The Holocaust is an interest of mine because it was unique in it's viciousness and brutality. I have met people who have survived concentration camps and I have visited those same camps. I have also visited the killing fields of Baba Yar in Ukraine. It has touched me personally.
Perhaps we should be a small bit thankful that even at the end killing the undesirable was valued over saving your own from defeat. I honestly wonder if the Nazi's had been willing to use the resources they had to hold their ground and be content with more slowly depopulating the continent of its undesirables if the war would have been won. One of the major problems for the German army even early on was availablility of train cars to transport soldiers to battle.
If they'd had more time they would have managed to wipe out all but he 'pure' and much would remain buried.
It wasn't just the wasted resources that cost the nazi war machine. Using Jews and others as slave labor was also counter productive and ultimately helped in their defeat. Read some of the accounts of surviving labor camp workers. They took every effort to sabotage the weapons they were constructing. The V-2 program was especially hard hit because of this. One trick they used was to pee on the circuit boards. The nazis had begun to inspect the work to look for signs of sabotage, but they workers let the urine dry first so it would not be obvious. It took a few days, but eventually it would start to corrode the components. This was one of the reasons the V-2s had such a poor performance record.
Read about Stalin's Gulags. Nobody gives a damn about the 25+ million who died in the Russian slave labor camps. And to even mention this somehow makes others accuse one of being anti-Semitic.
Actually the millions who died under Stalin is well know and people do very much "give a damn".
And i know of NO ONE who would claim that mentioning this makes one an anti-Semite.... unless of course that person was in fact a sneaky anti-Semite who brought it up in a thread about the holocaust, believing that mentioning it somehow marginalized what happened to the Jews.
It wasn't just the wasted resources that cost the nazi war machine. Using Jews and others as slave labor was also counter productive and ultimately helped in their defeat. Read some of the accounts of surviving labor camp workers. They took every effort to sabotage the weapons they were constructing. The V-2 program was especially hard hit because of this. One trick they used was to pee on the circuit boards. The nazis had begun to inspect the work to look for signs of sabotage, but they workers let the urine dry first so it would not be obvious. It took a few days, but eventually it would start to corrode the components. This was one of the reasons the V-2s had such a poor performance record.
This is true. In some ways its true of any situatuion where forced labor is used. Its the one small thing left to sabatoge and pay back. And if you're going to die anyway, then you have nothing left to lose.
This was general practice among slave labor during the war. It shows a measure of the degree of burtality employed on prisoners. It may have been a small reason to want to stay alive as well, for with every successful sabatoge was a small personal victory.
Most ongoing and functional slave systems offered some crumb to the slaves to make them willing to comply at least enough not to risk losing it. The Nazi's and the Japanese gave none.
Actually, another MAJOR reason the Nazi's went from killing people with firearms in the psychological toll it took on the one's doing the killing. The Ensatzgruppen were mobile killing forces, which rounded up Jews after battles and murdered them. Generally by machine gunning them to death. However, the psychological toll on many of the Nazi's led to alcoholism and other problems.
Himmler himself ordered the change from shooting to gassing, using carbon monoxide. ONLY to relieve the pressures on the killers. Not the victims.
In the documentary Third Reich, from the history channel, there is a chilling home movie from a German army private, shot by himself in his yard outside Berlin after his first tour of duty on the Eastern front. He had not shown any of this sort of behavior before, but went to the yard and built a mini-gallows, then took his daughters dolls and stuffed animals, and one by one strung them up and hung them, then shot them and then burned them. His family was horrified. At some point later on he commited sucide. And he was just regular army but the leftovers of the atrocities, and sometimes the atrocities themselves, were impossible not to see. Soldiers were forbidden to take pictures since they did not want to see the wives and mothers and children left at home to see them and did not want them around as evidence. The German public could slip over the bad parts if they didn't have to see it.
Later, there were scores of citizens who swore they knew nothing about the death camp down the road when the stench extended miles and miles beyond their homes and US troops did not believe them. How much can you pretend away?
Which is one of the reasons America engaged in a bloody civil war. We concluded long ago that such "reasoning" was no longer tolerable.
For the Russians and Germans, it took a little longer -- and cost millions of lives --- for the lightbulb to come on. And America had to flick the switch repeatedly to get their attention.
The results, however, remain mixed. Holocaust-deniers still retail their hateful crapola; Russia clings to its slave mentality with shifty-eyed Presidents for Life like Putin; amoral, collectivist thinking infects a significant proportion of the American intelligentsia.
Only Germany seems to have learned its lesson, content to diligently work on, carrying Europe on its back, while eschewing militarism. Getting one's teeth kicked in twice in one century seems to have done wonders for Deutschland.
The reason the fascination over the short number of years in WW2, and time leading up to it does not fade, I think, is it was such a monumental descent into pure barbarism. In many ways it was surgical barbarism, but sill applies. The Nazi slave labor system was one designed to rob the humanity of its victums and then when they were too weak to go on, use what could of their bodies. Stark brutality like this harks back to Atilla and his ilk and had not been seen in such widespread use until then. Hitler and Stalin made prisoners/slaves disposable.
I think it will continue to serve as a fascination because it was so cold and brutal and calculated down the the last figure. This is one reason why it should not be left to fade, not to keep punishing the descendents, but as a reminder of the depths which human beings are capable of, even educated and cultured and civilized Europeans.
In some forms slavery is useful for the one who owns them, and I doubt it will ever dissapear, and was probably one of the first social human inventions. But the slaves who work in systems that are not counter productive give just enough to the slave they will keep trying.
In the documentary Third Reich, from the history channel, there is a chilling home movie from a German army private, shot by himself in his yard outside Berlin after his first tour of duty on the Eastern front. He had not shown any of this sort of behavior before, but went to the yard and built a mini-gallows, then took his daughters dolls and stuffed animals, and one by one strung them up and hung them, then shot them and then burned them. His family was horrified. At some point later on he commited sucide. And he was just regular army but the leftovers of the atrocities, and sometimes the atrocities themselves, were impossible not to see. Soldiers were forbidden to take pictures since they did not want to see the wives and mothers and children left at home to see them and did not want them around as evidence. The German public could slip over the bad parts if they didn't have to see it.
Later, there were scores of citizens who swore they knew nothing about the death camp down the road when the stench extended miles and miles beyond their homes and US troops did not believe them. How much can you pretend away?
The Holocaust COULD NOT have been committed without the tacit approval of the German Population and the Polish Population. Its very easy for people, after the fact, to say, "I didn't know what was going on." That is complete and total BS. People here in the US knew what was going on. It was front page news, in many newspapers, across this country.
The populations of Germany and Poland, in GENERAL, really did not care what was occurring. Take Poland for instance. The vast majority of Jews, in Europe, prior to WWII lived in Poland. When they were rounded up and killed, Polish families moved into their homes, took over their businesses, and possessions. They became, well not wealthy, but well off due to the Holocaust. After the war, many Jews returned to their homes and could not get them back. Many Polish persons screamed, "They should have gassed more of you."
Same holds true for Germany. The general population benefitted in money, possessions, jobs, etc which were made vacant by the Jews. Not too mention, the jobs etc from looted money from the Jewish population. Lots of people made out in many different ways. There are actual accounts of German SS Soldiers who were court martialed for stealing from Jews in the concentration/death camps.
Now, I'm not saying the populations took part in the killings. However, they "looked the other way" when these issues were going on. And, without this tacit approval from the citizens, Hitler would not have been able to pull it off.
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