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Old 12-21-2013, 07:56 PM
 
Location: SoCal
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What if World War I would have broken out in 1905 or in 1909-1910? How would this TL's WWI would have looked like, which side would have won this TL's WWI, and how exactly would the post-war peace treaty have looked like in this scenario?

The reason that I chose these two years is because a revolution broke out in Russia in 1905 (which might have weakened Russia's ability to wage war for a while) and because the Haber-Bosch process (without which Germany might have only been able to wage a war for two years due to running out of munitions) was apparently first demonstrated in 1909.

As for what could have caused World War I to break out at these point in time, you can choose any realistic event which works for this.

 
Old 12-22-2013, 02:02 AM
 
Location: Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Futurist110 View Post
What if World War I would have broken out in 1905 or in 1909-1910? How would this TL's WWI would have looked like, which side would have won this TL's WWI, and how exactly would the post-war peace treaty have looked like in this scenario?

The reason that I chose these two years is because a revolution broke out in Russia in 1905 (which might have weakened Russia's ability to wage war for a while) and because the Haber-Bosch process (without which Germany might have only been able to wage a war for two years due to running out of munitions) was apparently first demonstrated in 1909.

As for what could have caused World War I to break out at these point in time, you can choose any realistic event which works for this.
For 1905? Easy. A European war came close to breaking out that year over Morocco. First Moroccan Crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Old 12-22-2013, 02:14 AM
 
Location: SoCal
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Originally Posted by majoun View Post
For 1905? Easy. A European war came close to breaking out that year over Morocco. First Moroccan Crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
OK--I am going to assume that there would have been some way for Kaiser Wilhelm II to "man up" enough to actually use this as a pretext to start a war, or at least to be incompetent enough to cause this crisis to spiral into war (like he did in real life in 1914).
 
Old 12-22-2013, 02:21 AM
 
Location: SoCal
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For the record, I think that a German victory with a WWI beginning in 1909 or in 1910 would probably be likelier than for real life's WWI due to Russia possibly being less prepared to fight (due to the lingering impact of its 1905 revolution) than it was in real life (not that it was that prepared to fight in real life, but still).

As for 1905, I am not sure if Germany had both the military ability and brainpower (among the generals) to decisively defeat Britain and France on the Western Front within two years. Even if Germany manages to get lucky and to conquer Paris and a greater part of northeastern France in comparison to WWI in real life, Britain could (if its leadership and generals would be smart) might still be willing to continue its blockade until Germany's munitions run out and them attempt a D-Day landing or something in France, causing the munition-less Germany to lose WWI.
 
Old 12-22-2013, 02:46 AM
 
Location: Earth
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Originally Posted by Futurist110 View Post
For the record, I think that a German victory with a WWI beginning in 1909 or in 1910 would probably be likelier than for real life's WWI due to Russia possibly being less prepared to fight (due to the lingering impact of its 1905 revolution) than it was in real life (not that it was that prepared to fight in real life, but still).

As for 1905, I am not sure if Germany had both the military ability and brainpower (among the generals) to decisively defeat Britain and France on the Western Front within two years. Even if Germany manages to get lucky and to conquer Paris and a greater part of northeastern France in comparison to WWI in real life, Britain could (if its leadership and generals would be smart) might still be willing to continue its blockade until Germany's munitions run out and them attempt a D-Day landing or something in France, causing the munition-less Germany to lose WWI.
If the Spanish-American War of 1898 had lasted longer, could it have turned into a World War? The alliances would have been different than in WW1, as the Entente didn't yet exist.
 
Old 12-22-2013, 12:38 PM
 
Location: SoCal
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Originally Posted by majoun View Post
If the Spanish-American War of 1898 had lasted longer, could it have turned into a World War? The alliances would have been different than in WW1, as the Entente didn't yet exist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperi..._United_States

Based on the link above, a German-U.S. war in 1898 might have been possible. Thus, perhaps some kind of WWI could have broken out in 1898 with the U.S. being on one side and with Spain and Germany on the other side. However, I am not sure that this war would have been large and/or vital enough for the U.S. to launch an invasion of Germany or anything like that.
 
Old 12-22-2013, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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The great turn of the invading German forces east of Paris in 1914 was spotted by fixed wing aircraft. This intelligence is what allowed Britain and France to react with a flank attack which became the battle of the Marne, which led to the huge stalemate on the western front.

In 1905 the airplane was still in its infancy stages and there would not have been any fixed wing scouts available, perhaps the Germans would have gotten away with their deviation from the modified version of the Schlieffen Plan which they were employing, perhaps there would have been no Marne battle, perhaps the Germans would have won the war in a quick manner.
 
Old 12-22-2013, 03:36 PM
 
Location: SoCal
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Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
The great turn of the invading German forces east of Paris in 1914 was spotted by fixed wing aircraft. This intelligence is what allowed Britain and France to react with a flank attack which became the battle of the Marne, which led to the huge stalemate on the western front.

In 1905 the airplane was still in its infancy stages and there would not have been any fixed wing scouts available, perhaps the Germans would have gotten away with their deviation from the modified version of the Schlieffen Plan which they were employing, perhaps there would have been no Marne battle, perhaps the Germans would have won the war in a quick manner.
You might have a very valid point here, though I've also heard that logistical difficulties might have prevented Germany from capturing Paris that quickly in 1914. If this is true, then perhaps this would have also been true for a World War I which broke out in 1905 as well. Heck, even in 1870-1871, it took Germany several months to actually capture Paris.

I also think that my point about Germany running out of munitions after about two years or so in a WWI which breaks out in 1905 (regardless of whether or not the Germans successfully capture Paris in this scenario) still stands. If the U.K.'s political and military leadership would have been smart enough to figure this out, then they could have stayed in WWI in one way/form or another until Germany ran out of munitions and then launch a D-Day-style invasion of Germany or of German occupied territory (which Germany would have been unable to effectively deal with due to its lack of munitions), thus causing Germany to lose WWI in 1907 or in 1908.
 
Old 12-22-2013, 09:35 PM
 
Location: SoCal
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Also, it is worth noting that the Schlieffen Plan/Schlieffen Proposal would not have been modified if WWI had broken out in 1905, since Schlieffen himself, rather than Moltke the Younger, was still in change of German military planning back then.
 
Old 12-22-2013, 10:46 PM
 
Location: Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Futurist110 View Post
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperi..._United_States

Based on the link above, a German-U.S. war in 1898 might have been possible. Thus, perhaps some kind of WWI could have broken out in 1898 with the U.S. being on one side and with Spain and Germany on the other side. However, I am not sure that this war would have been large and/or vital enough for the U.S. to launch an invasion of Germany or anything like that.
It would have had the potential to spread.

Britain backed the US and France and Germany both backed Spain.

If the war had reached Europe somehow - there was speculation about US attacks on the Andalusian ports in Spain - it could have sparked off a wider conflagration.
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