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A nation of people who have different types of faith and different levels of faith. The moniker "Christian" doesn't really mean very much when various "Christian" churches do not even accept other "Christian" churches. The other evening a Methodist friend got a little annoyed when I said that Methodism and Catholicism were "similar". I know people -- particularly in my home town -- who totally dismiss Mormonism. Catholic priests who do not allow their flock to attend a service in a Protestant church. I know few people who profess to believe in the Old Testament, yet if I attend a Catholic mass I hear one or more readings from it. Again, the term Christian has little meaning in American churches. Now let's all sit down together and read "The Watchtower".
Splitting hairs. How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
Of course there are many different interpretations of Christianity, and much disagreement between the various sects of Christianity.
Nonetheless, despite all of those differences, variances, and disagreements, there is far more similar between those many Christian sects than there is with any of the other major religions of the World.
This isn't a puzzle. Its not really adventurous or risky to assert that American Christians of whatever denomination/sect have more in common with each other than they have with any Moslem, Buddhist, Hindu, or even Jew.
I agree, the US has a secular government. And I for one am happy that it does. But, its silly to deny the influence of Christianity on the US and that most Americans are some sort of Christian.
No it isn't. The options aren't "Christian nation" or "Muslim-extremist nation."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salmonburgher
Agree. There is also no need to deny the fact that the US was founded by Christians and that even today the vast majority of the population is Christian.
No it wasn't. The US was founded by people with diverse beliefs. Many of them were deists, some atheists.
The United States was, as mentioned several times already, founded by men with dubious credentials vis-a-vis being Christian by any orthodox definition. It was, however, certainly founded upon Judeo-Christian mores and worldview.
It is a comfortable place for a Christian to live. But it is not, according to documents outlining its foundational intent, values, or definitions, a Christian nation.
The USA continues to be a majority Christian nation, but that majority is steadily shrinking. We may yet see an atheist elected to public office, though probably not in my lifetime. Atheists continue to be reviled and demonized from every pulpit in the land.
Splitting hairs. How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
...
I agree, the US has a secular government. And I for one am happy that it does. But, its silly to deny the influence of Christianity on the US and that most Americans are some sort of Christian.
It's hardly splitting hairs when men or women of some faiths could lose an election as president (or for that matter any other political office) based on what church they do or don't attend.
Nobody is denying that America was and is influenced by Christianity. We're denying that the U.S, should be defined as "a Christian nation".
You err instantly with the above. The Pope is a guest of the nation and as a visiting dignitary he is being afforded the graciousness and security which would be extended to any such visiting religious leader.
Further, if your reasoning was correct, than you are presenting a case for the United States being a Catholic nation, not just Christian. Was that your intent? If not, then you need to rethink your analysis.
To save you from repeating the non starter arguments you rely upon in your post, the determination of this matter is not going to be made by citing the peripheral presence of things Christian. That Congress opens with a prayer, that any particular president was deeply religious, that the Constitutional authors were religious, that the White House has a Christmas tree ...all of that is true but none of it establishes what you seem to have tricked yourself into believing.
The determination is made by the law of the land, not individual or collective demonstrations of religious devotion. The law of the land is that the US government is to be neutral on religious questions. It is not to start or sponsor any religion, it is not to interfere with the individual practice of religion.
So, unless you have some new legal argument which trumps the unambiguous language of the first amendment, you provide us with no reason to listen to your presentations. Citing the trappings of religion establishes only that Christianity is permitted and thrives within the nation, it does not establish any official status.
Sorry, Smoke, Mirrors, play on words, and Double Talk won't work here. . Doesn't matter what you think. Only matters what is. Not your interpretation. As I said, I am an Agnostic and have no dog in this hunt. The fact remains that this is a Nation founded under God, and is Internationally know as a "Christian" Nation. Period, and Millions recite their pledge of allegiance to the flag, every day, as "One Nation Under God" and you can't change that or explain it away. Its reality.
It is a comfortable place for a Christian to live. But it is not, according to documents outlining its foundational intent, values, or definitions, a Christian nation.
Intent is not reality, or the way things turn out. All one has to do is look how many times the name of "God" was invoked in our daily lives . Less today, since they took prayer out of school, but that's a recent event, in the frame of History.
Sorry, Smoke, Mirrors, play on words, and Double Talk won't work here. . Doesn't matter what you think. Only matters what is. Not your interpretation. As I said, I am an Agnostic and have no dog in this hunt. The fact remains that this is a Nation founded under God, and is Internationally know as a "Christian" Nation. Period, and Millions recite their pledge of allegiance to the flag, every day, as "One Nation Under God" and you can't change that or explain it away. Its reality.
It is as though you either didn't read, or didn't understand, a single word of the explanations presented to you. I did not present my interpretation, I presented the law of the land. The law says that the government is not to start a religion and is not to interfere with the private practice of religion. Where exactly do you see anything being interpreted? If I said that the stop sign over there means that drivers are supposed to stop, that isn't an interpretation, it is the only explanation. How can you possibly not understand this?
I see no point in further attempts to enlighten you.
Sorry, Smoke, Mirrors, play on words, and Double Talk won't work here. . Doesn't matter what you think. Only matters what is. Not your interpretation. As I said, I am an Agnostic and have no dog in this hunt. The fact remains that this is a Nation founded under God, and is Internationally know as a "Christian" Nation. Period, and Millions recite their pledge of allegiance to the flag, every day, as "One Nation Under God" and you can't change that or explain it away. Its reality.
You are right about one thing. Smoke, mirrors, & double talk won't work. There's really nothing to interpret. The nation was founded as a secular government, regardless of what people elsewhere think of it. "Under God" was added to the Pledge in 1954 by an act of Congress. I'm not sure what you think one would try to explain away, but reality is what it is, and the US is not a Christian Nation.
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