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Old 07-16-2016, 04:33 PM
 
Location: Florida
2,232 posts, read 2,116,860 times
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The decade of the 1860s was a turning point in American demographics. Prior to that decade, it was normal for the United States to grow in excess of 3% annually. Following the war, we never again surpassed 3% average growth over a decade (though the 1870s and 1880s came close with 2.8% annual growth over the decades).

Obviously, the big factor in that influenced that decade was the Civil War, still to this day the war that cost the most American lives.

What I found surprising though is the dramatic crash in African American population growth during the decade.

The United States grew 23% from 1860-1870, but African Americans only increased 10%. Keep in mind that prior to the war it was normal for AA to grow 2.5% annually, only slightly less than the white population.

My perception of the Civil War is that it was overwhelmingly fought between Northern white males, and Southern white males, therefore it should be the white community most ravaged by the demographic losses of war, but that does not appear to be so. My history classes throughout school and even college don't really mention what happened to the AA demograhics during this time period, consistently focusing on battles fought and googling pictures of the battles you can see it was a mostly white on white fight.

Was it famine? Genocide? Something occurred that isn't being talked about. I'm guessing the bulk of this decline occurred in the first five years of the decade meaning that for those five years perhaps population growth even went negative, with a rebound in the peace time later years of the decade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Americans

Just curious. Something that caught my eye. And about a topic that I have never seen discussed in history classes before.
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Old 07-16-2016, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Type 0.73 Kardashev
11,110 posts, read 9,804,566 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happiness-is-close View Post
The decade of the 1860s was a turning point in American demographics. Prior to that decade, it was normal for the United States to grow in excess of 3% annually. Following the war, we never again surpassed 3% average growth over a decade (though the 1870s and 1880s came close with 2.8% annual growth over the decades).

Obviously, the big factor in that influenced that decade was the Civil War, still to this day the war that cost the most American lives.

What I found surprising though is the dramatic crash in African American population growth during the decade.

The United States grew 23% from 1860-1870, but African Americans only increased 10%. Keep in mind that prior to the war it was normal for AA to grow 2.5% annually, only slightly less than the white population.

My perception of the Civil War is that it was overwhelmingly fought between Northern white males, and Southern white males, therefore it should be the white community most ravaged by the demographic losses of war, but that does not appear to be so. My history classes throughout school and even college don't really mention what happened to the AA demograhics during this time period, consistently focusing on battles fought and googling pictures of the battles you can see it was a mostly white on white fight.

Was it famine? Genocide? Something occurred that isn't being talked about. I'm guessing the bulk of this decline occurred in the first five years of the decade meaning that for those five years perhaps population growth even went negative, with a rebound in the peace time later years of the decade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Americans

Just curious. Something that caught my eye. And about a topic that I have never seen discussed in history classes before.
Part of the issue might have been due to the fact that the Civil War probably put a significant damper on the rate of natural increase of African-Americans, and to a greater degree than it did on whites, as well as the fact of immigration.

Per the 1860 census, 89% of American blacks were slaves. Almost all of these slaves lived in states where the war raged. It is common for rates of natural increase to abate during difficult times, and both slaves as well as slave-owners may have decided that then was not the time for the slaves to be reproducing. From the point of view of the slaves, the calculation is obvious. And even a slave-owner who sees nothing but property in a slave would have to think hard about whether the time was right for that sort of 'investment' (remember - a slave child isn't going to become productive for years).

Now, the same dynamic probably applied to whites - in some states. But the war was mostly fought in the South. The bulk of the white population of the country lived in states to which combat never came. Families in Massachusetts and New York and Ohio and Minnesota probably didn't adjust their reproductive patterns. And outside of the South, the African-American population of the United States ranged from less than 1% in New England and the Midwest to just under 2% in the Mid-Atlantic states.

All of these would significantly skew the natural increase during the war - and even after, considering the miserable shape of much of the South - towards white and away from blacks.

Also, while this was going on, immigration continued. Numbers certainly dropped, but the years 1861-1865 saw 800,000+ immigrants to the United States, virtually all of them white. And over 1.1 million more immigrants were added in the last four years of the 1860s - again, almost entirely white.

My guess is that these are the reasons for the statistical anomaly you reference.
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Old 07-18-2016, 07:52 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
3,287 posts, read 2,302,136 times
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One thing to remember, the slaves were suddenly unemployed. The Southern farmers had fared poorly where the war rolled over them, and only a bit less poorly in the rest of the Confederacy. Life was very certain for the newly freed people and that's not a good environment to start a family in. Even if they could get a paying job they were probably paid less than a white for the same work. The ones that went into share-cropping had to survive the first year or two until they could see a return on their work. There was no safety net for the freedmen, they were kicked out of the plantations and there was little or nothing in place to help them.
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Old 07-20-2016, 10:06 AM
Status: "119 N/A" (set 18 days ago)
 
12,953 posts, read 13,665,225 times
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Plantation life offered a semblance of domesticity that may have allowed slave women to give birth. For possibly two generation after the Civil War African Americans wandered and with out stability there is not a lot encouragement to have children. Many of the transient jobs men worked were in camps were there where no women.

Many African Americans who I personally knew as relatives and acquaintances who where born in the 1880's have very little knowledge of one or both of their parents. To give you some perspective ,last week I came across a program printed for a White family celebrating their 350th annual family reunion.
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Old 07-20-2016, 06:08 PM
 
7,578 posts, read 5,321,294 times
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There were 4.4 million black people in 1860 and 4.8 million in 1870 an increase of almost 400,000 during and shortly after the Civil War. Of course that figure doesn't count the number of blacks sho hd fled to Canada.
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Old 07-20-2016, 07:17 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
3,287 posts, read 2,302,136 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWiseWino View Post
There were 4.4 million black people in 1860 and 4.8 million in 1870 an increase of almost 400,000 during and shortly after the Civil War. Of course that figure doesn't count the number of blacks sho hd fled to Canada.
How many would there have been in a stable environment? We'll never know, of course.

The population increase was less then one percent per year. For a population of 4.4 million not much.
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Old 07-20-2016, 11:00 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
5,725 posts, read 11,709,844 times
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One question this raises for me is how well the 1870 census counted the whole African-American population. Under slavery, records were probably more precise and a more thorough accounting more feasible. After emancipation, record keeping requirements changed.
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Old 07-21-2016, 04:38 AM
 
Location: Glasgow Scotland
18,525 posts, read 18,732,187 times
Reputation: 28767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happiness-is-close View Post
The decade of the 1860s was a turning point in American demographics. Prior to that decade, it was normal for the United States to grow in excess of 3% annually. Following the war, we never again surpassed 3% average growth over a decade (though the 1870s and 1880s came close with 2.8% annual growth over the decades).

Obviously, the big factor in that influenced that decade was the Civil War, still to this day the war that cost the most American lives.

What I found surprising though is the dramatic crash in African American population growth during the decade.

The United States grew 23% from 1860-1870, but African Americans only increased 10%. Keep in mind that prior to the war it was normal for AA to grow 2.5% annually, only slightly less than the white population.

My perception of the Civil War is that it was overwhelmingly fought between Northern white males, and Southern white males, therefore it should be the white community most ravaged by the demographic losses of war, but that does not appear to be so. My history classes throughout school and even college don't really mention what happened to the AA demograhics during this time period, consistently focusing on battles fought and googling pictures of the battles you can see it was a mostly white on white fight.

Was it famine? Genocide? Something occurred that isn't being talked about. I'm guessing the bulk of this decline occurred in the first five years of the decade meaning that for those five years perhaps population growth even went negative, with a rebound in the peace time later years of the decade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Americans

Just curious. Something that caught my eye. And about a topic that I have never seen discussed in history classes before.
wasnt it more in the movies that it was mostly white who fought white.. there were all black companies who fought. Im not sure of the numbers but doubt very much as someone said that some fled to Canada.. By the end of the Civil War, roughly 179,000 black men (10% of the Union Army) served as soldiers in the U.S. Army and another 19,000 served in the Navy. Nearly 40,000 black soldiers died over the course of the war—30,000 of infection or disease. Black soldiers served in artillery and infantry and performed all noncombat support functions that sustain an army, as well. Black carpenters, chaplains, cooks, guards, laborers, nurses, scouts, spies, steamboat pilots, surgeons, and teamsters also contributed to the war cause. There were nearly 80 black commissioned officers. Black women, who could not formally join the Army, nonetheless served as nurses, spies, and scouts, the most famous being Harriet Tubman (photo citation: 200-HN-PIO-1), who scouted for the 2d South Carolina Volunteers.

Because of prejudice against them, black units were not used in combat as extensively as they might have been. Nevertheless, the soldiers served with distinction in a number of battles. Black infantrymen fought gallantly at Milliken's Bend, LA; Port Hudson, LA; Petersburg, VA; and Nashville, TN. The July 1863 assault on Fort Wagner, SC, in which the 54th Regiment of Massachusetts Volunteers lost two-thirds of their officers and half of their troops, was memorably dramatized in the film Glory. By war's end, 16 black soldiers had been awarded the Medal of Honor for their valor.

In addition to the perils of war faced by all Civil War soldiers, black soldiers faced additional problems stemming from racial prejudice. Racial discrimination was prevalent even in the North, and discriminatory practices permeated the U.S. military. Segregated units were formed with black enlisted men and typically commanded by white officers and black noncommissioned officers. The 54th Massachusetts was commanded by Robert Shaw and the 1st South Carolina by Thomas Wentworth Higginson—both white. Black soldiers were initially paid $10 per month from which $3 was automatically deducted for clothing, resulting in a net pay of $7. In contrast, white soldiers received $13 per month from which no clothing allowance was drawn. In June 1864 Congress granted equal pay to the U.S. Colored Troops and made the action retroactive. Black soldiers received the same rations and supplies. In addition, they received comparable medical care.

The black troops, however, faced greater peril than white troops when captured by the Confederate Army. In 1863 the Confederate Congress threatened to punish severely officers of black troops and to enslave black soldiers. As a result, President Lincoln issued General Order 233, threatening reprisal on Confederate prisoners of war (POWs) for any mistreatment of black troops. Although the threat generally restrained the Confederates, black captives were typically treated more harshly than white captives. In perhaps the most heinous known example of abuse, Confederate soldiers shot to death black Union soldiers captured at the Fort Pillow, TN, engagement of 1864. Confederate General Nathan B. Forrest witnessed the massacre and did nothing to stop it.
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