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US Asiatic Fleet which became the 7th fleet which was the 16th Naval District. They were based at Cavite Naval Base and Olongapo Naval Station on Luzon, with its headquarters at the Marsman Building in Manila, Philippines. On July 22 1941, the Mariveles US Naval Base was completed. On Dec 7, 1941, Japan attacked Pearl Harbor.
And how long had the Asiatic Fleet been in existence, please.
the kuomintang and CPC had already began to drive power in china from 1921. the US could never defeat china because of it's size and distant geography. it made more sense to leave chiang kai shek and his minions in taiwan, and let china fester in it's own economic destruction and isolationism. the US has failed in every single campaign against china militarily whether directly or indirectly from the korean war, to the vietnam war. with the fuel resources, and proximity to china, japan had every chance to take over china. this would have taken years tho, and when the US intervened, it was pretty much over.
the more important question is why was the US intervening in a foreign land that they had no business being involved in. we ask that today in our engagement in the middle east and other places where we manage to create problems. we're not taught why pearl harbor really happened in our schools. but you start interfering in other nation's foreign affairs, be prepared to deal with consequences via blowback.
When did the US try to defeat China? We were in the Boxer Rebellion, we backed the KMT against Japan, we sent observers to the Chinese Communist Party & the KMT. TMK, we never targeted the CCP, & KMT didn't seem likely to win any wars. Sun Yat-sen may have been a power, but Chiang Kai Shek wasn't him.
Imperial Japan easily outmatched Chinese military forces - but then the governments there collapsed - there was never anyone that the Japanese could negotiate with. & Imperial Japan was a terrible administrator. After Japanese atrocities on the mainland, I don't think Japan was ever going to find anyone to negotiate with, in China.
TMK, we were in China for trade, & there were also Christian missionary activities that we more or less supported, although that wasn't part of the trade/military reasons we were there. in the middle east - the troublemakers there were UK & France, from the Sykes-Picot Agreement carving up the lost Ottoman Empire lands, to UK maneuvering the US into toppling Iran's PM Mossadegh because UK wanted to unilaterally abrogate their oil trade & training for tech & admin cadre with Iran. Our involvement with the Middle East otherwise goes back to FDR negotiating with the Saudis for oil, in return for military & political protection. Recently, as the US has become a net exporter of oil & natgas, we're present in the Middle East more to help defend NATO's interest in accessible & relatively cheap oil/natgas.
Japan is a nation that is intelligent and brave, although sometimes they do things that are crazy .......(they do suicide aircraft when bombing attack on Pearl Harbor).
But they always be honest nations if they have made mistaken or lost.
Um....honest like in admitting what they did to China, Korea, phillipeans and most of the rest of asia? Not so much.
If an armed citizenry is such a game-stopper, how was the Confederacy defeated?
The idea of the Imperial Japanese Army being terrified of Buford and Cletus and their deer rifles is certainly amusing in its inanity, though.
Well, once you have the Red Army crossing the Bering Strait and hundreds of miles of trackless western Alaskan braided rivers and mountain ranges, then somehow fighting their way down to the Lower 48 (what, we couldn't have bombed the only high leading out of Alaska?), or a massive airborne invasion in aircraft 'disguised as commercial airliners' (what, no one thought it odd that suddenly there were over 100 flights scheduled in a single day from Vladivostok to places like rural Colorado?), then suddenly high school kids kicking a little special forces ass just sort of blends into the jingoistic fantasy.
History teaches us that in the face of a *fair* occupier that won't annihilate entire villages in retaliation that an occupation can be thwarted by a resistance.
However, the Japanese were not that and would have massacred the populance.
But, in that case you start to run into sheer desperation like at Stalingrad where yeah....you have a deer rifle but if you hide in some cover you can get 1 or 2 before they kill you.
During the confederacy, the men with a will to fight had already taken up arms.
There are a HOST of examples showing and armed population can make life suck for a better armed force...going back hundreds of years.
So yeah, if pushed up against a wall so to speak by a brutal occupying force...having guns makes a big difference.
When did the US try to defeat China? We were in the Boxer Rebellion, we backed the KMT against Japan, we sent observers to the Chinese Communist Party & the KMT. TMK, we never targeted the CCP, & KMT didn't seem likely to win any wars. Sun Yat-sen may have been a power, but Chiang Kai Shek wasn't him.
Imperial Japan easily outmatched Chinese military forces - but then the governments there collapsed - there was never anyone that the Japanese could negotiate with. & Imperial Japan was a terrible administrator. After Japanese atrocities on the mainland, I don't think Japan was ever going to find anyone to negotiate with, in China.
TMK, we were in China for trade, & there were also Christian missionary activities that we more or less supported, although that wasn't part of the trade/military reasons we were there. in the middle east - the troublemakers there were UK & France, from the Sykes-Picot Agreement carving up the lost Ottoman Empire lands, to UK maneuvering the US into toppling Iran's PM Mossadegh because UK wanted to unilaterally abrogate their oil trade & training for tech & admin cadre with Iran. Our involvement with the Middle East otherwise goes back to FDR negotiating with the Saudis for oil, in return for military & political protection. Recently, as the US has become a net exporter of oil & natgas, we're present in the Middle East more to help defend NATO's interest in accessible & relatively cheap oil/natgas.
the US and western powers have always tried to destroy china whether by imperialism or opium. the US traded with china in the 19th and 20th century out of necessity, but any alliances were as thin as paper. this is the same as today, though trillions of dollars worth of trade have gone through past 30 years, there is no real alliance between the two nations. post ww2, the US and china were at state of war, by pawns, thru wars in korea and vietnam.
Last edited by HarryHaller73; 07-26-2016 at 09:41 PM..
And how long had the Asiatic Fleet been in existence, please.
about 35 years. in the early 20th century, the "fleet" were basically gunships and patrol boats doing routes up and down rivers to protect US trade. they were defensive escorts. the first large cruiser arrived in the 1930's.. what the asiatic fleet consisted of by 1940 was vastly different than what was there 20 years before. i'm sure this isn't what mr. stein taught you in highschool.
Last edited by HarryHaller73; 07-26-2016 at 09:42 PM..
the US and western powers have always tried to destroy china whether by imperialism or opium. the US traded with china in the 19th and 20th century out of necessity, but any alliances were as thin as paper. this is the same as today, though trillions of dollars worth of trade have gone through past 30 years, there is no real alliance between the two nations. post ww2, the US and china were at state of war, by pawns, thru wars in korea and vietnam.
about 35 years. in the early 20th century, the "fleet" were basically gunships and patrol boats doing routes up and down rivers to protect US trade. they were defensive escorts. the first large cruiser arrived in the 1930's.. what the asiatic fleet consisted of by 1940 was vastly different than what was there 20 years before. i'm sure this isn't what mr. stein taught you in highschool.
the US and western powers have always tried to destroy china whether by imperialism or opium. the US traded with china in the 19th and 20th century out of necessity, but any alliances were as thin as paper. this is the same as today, though trillions of dollars worth of trade have gone through past 30 years, there is no real alliance between the two nations. post ww2, the US and china were at state of war, by pawns, thru wars in korea and vietnam.
Hmm. In the case of China, historically the Western power that was trying to achieve a favorable balance of trade was the UK, & that goes for imperialism & opium as well. As I recall, it was UK (possibly one of the East India Trading Companies variants, set up for the China trade) that cast about for a way to reverse the flow of gold & etc. from UK to China for ceramics, tea, silk, spices (?). UK found a suitable substitute in opium, & I believe massive plantations were established in India to grow & transship opium to China for trade for China's exports.
The US has traded more in transshipping & exporting the same Chinese goods to the US market, TMK. As for the alliance between the US & China - it's been real, since Pres. Nixon went to China. For both parties' reasons, real if different, we played the China card, & they played the US card - both against the USSR. As trade between the two countries has burgeoned since Pres. Nixon's visit, like it or no we have economic relationships with China. @ this point in the World's economic system, it would be very counterproductive to attempt to destroy China's manufacturing infrastructure & labor arrangements - they are currently, & have been for decades now - the heart of manufacturing in the World, low-tech & high-tech, & lots of middle ground too.
We gave billions in aid to China during WWII. And I mean GAVE. For every two tons of supplies that made it to the troops another fifteen tons was stolen by the authorities along the Burma Road.
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The US & China
