Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-17-2020, 10:47 PM
 
17,874 posts, read 15,947,840 times
Reputation: 11660

Advertisements

Why was a global circumnavigation not attempted sooner?

Despite what many of us were told in school, our ancestor thought the Earth was rotund, and tried to prove it with math and astronomy. The Ancient Greeks up through the Middle Ages. The Scandinavians even mention the concept in the 12th Century.

Did they think that the Earth curved and then just dropped off into the underworld, or were they afraid that it spiraled to infinity, and one never reach back to origin?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_Earth#History
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-18-2020, 06:06 AM
 
Location: North America
4,430 posts, read 2,708,233 times
Reputation: 19315
They key to circumnavigation wasn't the concept that the Earth was (more or less) a sphere. The keys were knowledge and technology and incentive.

Knowledge included the publication of sufficiently accurate star charts and navigation tables, and even more critically the trade winds. The latter were eventually discovered by Portuguese working the coast of Africa in the 15th century.

The requisite technology included that for celestial navigation: astrolab and quadrant and sail and ship developments allowing for relatively swift windward travel combined with the ability to haul enough food and water to endure long periods as sea.

Incentive included the development of commercial trade in sufficient volume to make the attempt worth the risk, as well as geographic developments. In the 15th century, the Ottomans defeated the Byzantines and vastly complicated trade between Italy, Spain and Portugal on one hand, and the East on the other. One solution to these complications was to avoid dealing with the Ottomans, which meant going around them, and one way to do that was simply to go west until one got... well, East.

All of these elements came together in a critical mass in the 15th century. At that point, it was just a matter of time.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-18-2020, 06:23 AM
 
3,734 posts, read 2,562,051 times
Reputation: 6789
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
Why was a global circumnavigation not attempted sooner?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_Earth#History
Probably due to fear, and lack of desire...
On a related note, it kills me how modern critics make Columbus' voyages seem like pedestrian blunders.. To make a round trip across the Atlantic in the 15th century was an incredible (& basically unparalleled) travel feat.. in my mind it was equivalent to going to the moon without any ground support. Circumnavigation was not even on the radar for most of humanity due to lack of assured knowledge, or need for epic travel. Just my take..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-18-2020, 08:31 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,211 posts, read 107,904,670 times
Reputation: 116159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Babe_Ruth View Post
Probably due to fear, and lack of desire...
On a related note, it kills me how modern critics make Columbus' voyages seem like pedestrian blunders.. To make a round trip across the Atlantic in the 15th century was an incredible (& basically unparalleled) travel feat.. in my mind it was equivalent to going to the moon without any ground support. Circumnavigation was not even on the radar for most of humanity due to lack of assured knowledge, or need for epic travel. Just my take..
And when the Vikings crossed the Atlantic, they stayed close to land. They didn't launch off into the vast watery nothingness, with no land to naviagate by for weeks. They did the equivalent of island-hopping; from Iceland to Greenland and eventually northern Canada.

There's some speculation that early man did the same from northeast Asia to North America when the Bering land bridge was up, following the coastline in kayaks. Coastal water travel is much faster and more efficient than trudging over land. The earliest of human settlers near the north coast of Siberia have been found to have done the same, but moving west along the top rim of Asia to their side of the Scandinavian peninsula. It's amazing what early humans were capable of. The key was to stay close to land. Other rumored ocean crossings by early humans were considered accidental; the result of becoming lost at sea and drifting to another continent.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-18-2020, 08:50 AM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,575 posts, read 17,286,360 times
Reputation: 37324
I think the real problem was that up until the late 15th century humanity was simply trying to hold on to what they had. Plague, famine and war ate up valuable resources, so considering some far away unexplored place was out of the question.
During the 1400's a great portion of the population was wiped out. Consider, for a moment, that the time between Bubonic plague and Columbus is about the same as the time between The Civil War and today. It's not really all that long.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-18-2020, 09:12 AM
 
Location: San Diego CA
8,488 posts, read 6,891,592 times
Reputation: 17018
I suppose seafaring in it’s earliest stages was simply groups of people looking for better places to live on a micro scale. With the advent of the nation state and the ability to accumulate resources and manpower there was an incentive to design more sophisticated ships and navigation methods to exploit the riches and manpower of other places in the world.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-18-2020, 11:58 PM
 
17,874 posts, read 15,947,840 times
Reputation: 11660
You dont really need a lot of money. Ocean going ships back then not that expensive. Look at what the Vikings did with their longboats. Longboats made by local villagers.

Risk/fear should not hold anyone back. If they willing to engage in land battles, and battles at sea, sailing further and further into the ocean should be a peace of cake on the nerves.

The only desire, and incentive needed is curiosity. Humans back then also must have been pretty darn bored of life. No real forms of entertainment like we have today. Not much else to live for. You can make a name for yourself by taking chances like sailing further than anyone before in a certain direction.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-19-2020, 02:38 AM
 
5,428 posts, read 3,497,292 times
Reputation: 5031
There was also the problem that after the fall of the Western Roman Empire, a large part of Europe entered what was once known as ‘The Dark Ages’. Historians nowadays, have moved away from that term as it neglects to take into consideration many of the developments that took place during the Middle Ages, but there was still a regression from the height of Imperial Rome. During the time of the Renaissance and the subsequent rediscovery of antiquity, Europeans developed the tools that would help with exploration.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-19-2020, 12:01 PM
 
17,874 posts, read 15,947,840 times
Reputation: 11660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
There was also the problem that after the fall of the Western Roman Empire, a large part of Europe entered what was once known as ‘The Dark Ages’. Historians nowadays, have moved away from that term as it neglects to take into consideration many of the developments that took place during the Middle Ages, but there was still a regression from the height of Imperial Rome. During the time of the Renaissance and the subsequent rediscovery of antiquity, Europeans developed the tools that would help with exploration.
But the Vikings made it to Greenland, and New World before the Renaissance.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-19-2020, 12:33 PM
 
Location: North America
4,430 posts, read 2,708,233 times
Reputation: 19315
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
But the Vikings made it to Greenland, and New World before the Renaissance.
The Faroe Islands are less than 200 miles from Scotland.

Iceland is less than 300 miles from the Faroes.

Greenland is less than 200 miles from Iceland.

Baffin Island is less than 300 miles from Greenland.

After that, it's just hugging the coast and a couple of straits well under 100 miles wide down to Vinland.

None of those passages are notably more daunting than the passage across the North Sea from Norway to Scotland that the Vikings made routinely from the 8th century on. 300 miles can be accomplished in under a week in a Viking knarr or longship, easily within the range of short exploratory voyages without having to worry about running out of provisions.

This is not comparable at all to nearly 3000 miles of open ocean from the Azores to the Bahamas that Columbus sailed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top