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You have to keep in mind that before the war, the appeal of the youth groups was a strong pull on many German children because these groups, while being spoon fed a mantra of national socialism, were also going camping, swimming, skiing and doing loads of other thing kids like to do. I don't doubt any number of parents went along with it all as part of the "good German" approach.
Membership of the Hitler Youth was also made compulsory, and if any parents refused, they were investigated.
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Originally Posted by Veritas Vincit
It also doesn't necessarily make you 'bad'. Unless you walked in their shoes, you probably should reserve judgment.
Yes, it is difficult to understand even for Germans, especially as many did not talk about their experiences. One relative who did was made a member of the Hitler youth when he was 13. Because of the cult of personality, he admired Hitler, but was angry when Hitler committed suicide because he thought Hitler had betrayed Germany.
After the war, he was made to go to a cinema and watch a film about the Holocaust, which made him angry with himself for having been a Nazi and thinking Hitler was a hero.
There is a difference between "Nazis sneaking by" and Nazi war criminals "sneaking by". I once knew a man who was a boy in the Hitler Youth organization who lived a normal life in the US. I never considered him a Nazi in the sense that he was particularly pro-Hitler as in a "good Nazi" that supported the entire menu of Hitler's regime. He lived in an area that became part of Poland after 1945 and was expelled to settlement in East Germany. That did not make him a Communist, either.
I agree with your post. Many people nominally joined the "National Socialist" or "Communist" parties.
That being said, many active, culpable Nazis were sneaked in, either to the democracies or to South America. Denazification was a joke. Roosevelt promised that people involved with the Final Solution would face the consequences. It was an empty promise, made so that nothing would have to be done right away about rescuing the Jews. Basically the Jews were told to "wait while the war was being won" and then after the war was won it was "oops sorry."
How many former Communists have been let into the USA and European nations following the fall of the USSR and other Communist nations? Many of them former members of the KGB.
The far greater concern is the growth of the Russian mafia around the US, after 1991. "Former" members of the KGB and Nomenklatura still retained their influence and access to high posts, so they wouldn't have any need or interest in leaving. The system provided them with a good life.
How many former Communists have been let into the USA and European nations following the fall of the USSR and other Communist nations? Many of them former members of the KGB.
You might be more comfortable posting in P&OC. Take a good look at the requirements for entry to the U.S. and you'll find the biggest stumbling block (in writing) is ever having been affiliated with the communist party. History discussions are not the fact free flaming farcical fallacies from fanatics allowed in P&OC. Slightly higher standards apply, such as some slight real knowledge of a topic.
Always had a problem with the Allies branding anyone who was in the SS, SA, SD, and many other groups "automatically a criminal". It was just a ploy to have at least something to charge any German or select foreign types they manage to pick up. "Guilty until you prove you are innocent" was a sad travesty of victors justice. Yes, many were involved in criminal acts but many were not.
Last edited by KountryKarr; 01-04-2022 at 09:54 AM..
Another case of judging history by today's standards?
We edge dangerously close today of judging whole groups of people by the acts of their most powerful of ill-intent.
I have no doubt that the majority of Americans who had the correct information knew the evils of what was happening in Germany and were against it. Here in the Midwest and probably all over this was complicated by relatives and close relationships with many who were still in Europe. Minnesota, Wisconsin and Iowa had a high percentage of German-born citizens and suddenly they were guilty by association.
It was a time of indecision here on the prairie.
Nowhere was this made more evident to me than by my country school teaching mother who one day told me the story of the government erecting a prisoner of war camp near her country school. This was toward the end of the war when Germany was using its youngest and most inexperienced and older, least able civilians for cannon fodder.
There they were behind the barbed wire next to the school and when she let the children out to play some of them would come to the fence and gaze longingly perhaps thinking of loved ones they may never see again. It was largely a German farming community but I suspect showing excessive compassion could put one under suspicion themselves.
So there were the inevitable complaints of the "Nazis" staring at their children and Mom was told to make sure the children played on the other side of the school or stayed inside at recess. She said it hurt her heart to deny those common, everyday men that one simple pleasure. I doubt she ever voiced that experience before to anyone.
It was admirable that she had that ability to put herself into the others' shoes. If more of our leaders and voters could do so perhaps we'd have less killing and suffering. It was a touchy situation.
Now a comment about judging a whole country by a decision to accept citizens who "were like them." I'm not aware there were any countries in the 1930s or 40s who were clamoring for more citizens. "But not like us. We want controversial ones." LOL
People have always identified best with their familiars. It's not an outrage but a human characteristic.
Our German immigrants in Minnesota had proved themselves to be industrious, forward-thinking and family- and community-minded. There were the usual cultural problems and bad apples but in general they believed in orderly and dutiful living. Scorn those principles as you may today they make for a safe culture. Until we allow someone to demonize a whole group of people and we get helplessly swept along by the tidal wave of power in high places.
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