Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-10-2009, 08:39 PM
 
Location: 5 years in Southern Maryland, USA
845 posts, read 2,831,719 times
Reputation: 541

Advertisements

The Lusitania ship, by the way, was secretly loaded with American munitions bound for Britain- this was why the Germans sank it.. The doomed ship's passengers didn't have any inkling they were carrying munitions. When the ship much later was found and excavated, the truth came out. A National Geographic article in the 1990s explained all this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-12-2009, 08:18 PM
 
1,308 posts, read 2,866,148 times
Reputation: 641
Its true that the ship was carrying munitions, the submarine that sunk it had no way to know that. Any ship that came into the exclusion zone around the UK was attacked, the Lusitania was huge which probably drew attention to it. Whether the ship was carrying weapons or not was really besides the point, it was traveling into an area that Germany had specifically warned they were liable to attack; including taking out newspaper advertising to that effect in the US.

There is a great irony in that Wilson proclaimed the sinking a terrible immorality. Thirty years later the US was firebombing German and Japanese cities and launching massive submarine campaigns against Japan.

Our values changed quickly.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-24-2010, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Peterborough, England
472 posts, read 925,548 times
Reputation: 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trudy Rose View Post
I recently read this theory. The US had been lending so much money to the Allies, that when things seemed their worst , Wilson decided that if Germany won, we would never get the money back and that was one consideration for entering the War.
Nar. As of April 1917 all loans to the Allies had been secured on Allied (mainly British) property in the US or Canada, ie beyond the reach even of a victorious Germany. So American lenders would not have lost their money, regardless of the war's outcome.

By November 1916, all the available collateral was tied up, and further loans, if any, would have to be unsecured. But when the House of Morgan attempted to promote one, the Federal Reserve Board, with President Wilson's approval, issued a strong warning to US citizens about the inadvisability of subscribing to such loans. Wilson, IOW, was aware of the risk of America becoming financially 'tied' to the Allies in the way you describe - and was taking steps to prevent it.

The first unsecured loan to Britain was not made until May 1917, a month after the US declaration of war.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-24-2010, 11:36 AM
 
630 posts, read 1,874,738 times
Reputation: 368
Didn't really matter if the loans were secured or not,the large majority were never repaid.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-24-2010, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Peterborough, England
472 posts, read 925,548 times
Reputation: 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitroae23 View Post
Didn't really matter if the loans were secured or not,the large majority were never repaid.
It evidently mattered to President Wilson and the Federal Reserve Board - the men who effectively decided whether Britain would get any further loans.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-24-2010, 09:55 PM
 
1,308 posts, read 2,866,148 times
Reputation: 641
I have read that the only loans repaid to the US from the First World War were from Finland. I always wondered if that was true.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-24-2010, 10:55 PM
 
59 posts, read 127,800 times
Reputation: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by noetsi View Post
Its true that the ship was carrying munitions, the submarine that sunk it had no way to know that. Any ship that came into the exclusion zone around the UK was attacked, the Lusitania was huge which probably drew attention to it. Whether the ship was carrying weapons or not was really besides the point, it was traveling into an area that Germany had specifically warned they were liable to attack; including taking out newspaper advertising to that effect in the US.

There is a great irony in that Wilson proclaimed the sinking a terrible immorality. Thirty years later the US was firebombing German and Japanese cities and launching massive submarine campaigns against Japan.

Our values changed quickly.
The Germans published a notice that the Lusitania could be a target, Wilson wanted a pretext to enter the war.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-24-2010, 11:00 PM
 
59 posts, read 127,800 times
Reputation: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by noetsi View Post
Its true that the ship was carrying munitions, the submarine that sunk it had no way to know that. Any ship that came into the exclusion zone around the UK was attacked, the Lusitania was huge which probably drew attention to it. Whether the ship was carrying weapons or not was really besides the point, it was traveling into an area that Germany had specifically warned they were liable to attack; including taking out newspaper advertising to that effect in the US.

There is a great irony in that Wilson proclaimed the sinking a terrible immorality. Thirty years later the US was firebombing German and Japanese cities and launching massive submarine campaigns against Japan.

Our values changed quickly.
The morality of starving populations into submission or gassing troops is not far removed from firebombing cities in a total war.

Total war is a horrible prospect, but when faced with it you must be prepared to fight it or face the inevitable.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-25-2010, 01:02 AM
 
Location: Peterborough, England
472 posts, read 925,548 times
Reputation: 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by noetsi View Post
I have read that the only loans repaid to the US from the First World War were from Finland. I always wondered if that was true.
As I understand it, Finland was to only country to repay in full. Other countries did repay for a time, but at various points stopped repaying when their economies ran into trouble. I'm a bit vague about the dates involved, but would guess that most of the defaulting was in the 1930s, when the Depression set in.

I should also guess that the secured loans were probably paid off first. Certainly that's how I'd have done it were I running the British Treasury. But by the end of WW1 those were a relatively modest part of the total indebtedness. The unsecured loans made after April 1917 were much larger.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-25-2010, 01:12 AM
 
Location: Peterborough, England
472 posts, read 925,548 times
Reputation: 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big bull View Post
The Germans published a notice that the Lusitania could be a target, Wilson wanted a pretext to enter the war.
Then why did he not go to war until two years after the Lusitania sinking? By April 1917 the Lusitania was ancient history

As late as Jan 1917, Wilson was 'backpedalling' on his initial insistance that even armed merchantmen should not be attacked without warning; much to the distress of his (far more pro-Allied) Secretary of State, Robert Lansing. They were still exchanging memos about it when the German Ambassador rendered the question moot by notifying them of unrestricted warfare against all merchantmen, whether armed or not.

Patrick J Devlin, 'Too Proud to Fight - Woodrow Wilson's Neutrality' gives an excellent account of it all.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:54 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top