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I just had my kitchen redone. (about 90% anyway) I have two question regarding what I should expect from the workmanship:
1) is there expected/standard standard spacing between 16x16 glazed ceramic tiles?
Should I expect all the seems to be at 90degrees and (sanded) grout spacing the same size?
2) How even should all knobs be on kitchen cabinets? should you literally be able to put a level on them and expect them to be level?
I know this probably sounds stupid, but I don't know what a reasonably expectation is. There are some people that no matter what you do, it's never good enough. I don't wanna be one of them. I understand that not everything can be absolutely perfect, but how close should I expect?
what are your experiences/advice?
I"ve enclosed a couple of pics for reference:
thank you.
Last edited by lmapt; 05-21-2011 at 07:50 PM..
Reason: forgot to add a detail
Those of us who give a damn....I have met one or 2 in my long life, go by the thought that we should always strive for perfection. If you don't push to be perfect in everything you do, then you will always remain just average. I could never live with myself being just average. Therefore I demand perfection in myself and others.
That said, let me say that in construction there is no such thing as absolute perfection. With all products being manufactured and yet others being field cut on the site there will always be tolerances. But those tolerances must be damn good and acceptable.
Your shaker full overlay doors spacing looks pretty good. Only a real cabinet professional knows how to adjust doors. Those who do one kitchen a year as Remodelers have no idea how. A templet or a *** must be used to put on knobs and/or handles. If you see some one using a measuring tape to make pencil marks on your doors to mark where to drill then drill their azz out your front door. You have knobs which allow for some variance of imperfection. Handles are much more difficult. No DO NOT use a level on door hardware. Some cabinet doors will actually be unlevel (not to the naked eye) in order to make all the gaps and heights correct to the naked eye. Besides, you're probably talking about a torpedo level and just so ya'll know this, a torpedo level is a joke. They do not work. The doors don't look bad to me.
The tile pic is not horrible but not perfect or even close. Did you hire some quack from the Home Depot parking lot who speaks no English? I have seen far worse but quite often I see people accepting something less then good and call it good. Everyone has a different idea of a good job. From what you showed us I don't feel you have such a bad job at all. It could be much worse. During these economic depression times and unemployment over 60% among construction professionals, anyone with a pick up truck and a tool box can call themselves a contractor and stick you with a horrible job.
By the way......it's rare I see some one placing cabinet knobs in the proper place. Your guy did it proper.
Good luck to ya
The cabinet knobs look good to me. I am picky about grout lines in tile though. I do not like the gap on the floor. That would really irk me. I guess it depends on how much you paid for the remodel.
These were two professionals One is a finish carpenter and the other one does mostly tile. They have both been in business for 25+ years ea.
Should the tile spacing be even?
On the knobs, they don look even to the naked eye. Thats what mede me use a level. They actually seem better in the pick.If you put something straight, doesnt have to necessarily be a level , about the width of the cabinet, there is a visible tip down in one direction
It should be even, but nothing is ever perfect. I don't think it's very noticable unless someone is literally staring at it like we are looking at these pictures. That little gap near the trim is the most obvious thing you've shown us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lmapt
On the knobs, they don look even to the naked eye. Thats what mede me use a level. They actually seem better in the pick.If you put something straight, doesnt have to necessarily be a level , about the width of the cabinet, there is a visible tip down in one direction
I believe you. The pics don't look bad. But I did hold up a business card to the bottom of the knobs to measure the distance to the bottom of the door edge. There is a slight difference in distance for the top knobs. (That should be your measure of perfection, not a level because the cabinet doors aren't likely level. If you insist on them being "level" they will look worse.)
The biggest qestion is if these knobs can be moved without a hole showing where the knobs were previously located. I think the hole won't be noticable since the adjustment will be minor. However, since the adjustment will be minor, the knob durability will be impacted, especially if the adjustment is so minor that a new hole can't be drilled---because it's immediately part of the existing hole. In other words, if you insist on adjusting these knobs, you could end up with knobs that fall off easily. This is very likely because they're off by just a tiny bit.
In a nutshell, yes, I think you're being too picky.
Sometimes it's the tile itself. Last tile job I did the owner bought what was probably the cheapest stuff they could find at Lowes. Tile size varied a bit. Luckily it wasn't a big bathroom, but if it were kitchen-sized it would've been more noticeable.
Sometimes it's the tile itself. Last tile job I did the owner bought what was probably the cheapest stuff they could find at Lowes. Tile size varied a bit. Luckily it wasn't a big bathroom, but if it were kitchen-sized it would've been more noticeable.
Good point and you are correct. If one buys that 99 cent per tile junk from the big box stores the tiles are not exactly uniform in size. No matter how good an Installer, the job will never look that great.
A tile setter with 25 yrs experience should be laying them down more evenly. The knobs should have been placed once the doors had been leveled and they should line up. I would definitely complain.
Tile sizes can vary somewhat. Especially the cheap ones, or those that are handmade- as others have noted. So, perfect spacing will be hard to do.
The knobs on the cabinet doors appear to be off just a tad. The question is- Is it the hole that was drilled, or the hardware itself? Hardware is mass produced with little oversight as to quality. Sometimes a knob or handle can be drilled and tapped out of tolerance- creating the illusion of off-center or out of level when in fact the hole is in the right place (I also agree with desert- not using a template is asking for disaster).
Regardless of who, or how many years of experience, the "real question" is this-
"How was the expectation set in your mind?"
By your question(s), I'd say there was no expectation set- affording you the opportunity to question what is acceptable and what is not. There are industry standards, like these- https://ccbed.ccb.state.or.us/webpdf..._standards.pdf
And of course these standards must meet or exceed the minimum standards set forth by the ICC (International Code Council), or the amendments by the individual states.
You have to examine your own expectation and see if it fits the industry standard- Asking those questions on C-D is like asking for american cheese and you get the question- "White or Yellow?" It's the same thing, only different.
k'legdbldr, you are correct, I had not expectations. I never thought of asking if the tile would be spaced evenly, or if the knobs would be level. thats why I ask.
I guess I just assumed ( and I do know what that makes me) that the above stuff was the standard.
tile price was about 2$ sq ft.
4.5k to remove and replace cabinets, move ice line 1ft, remove existing laminate floor and all work and installation of tile, and crown molding.
measuring from the edge of the cabinet to the to the screw on the inside of the cabinet, (of the knobs in the picture) they're about 3/32th's off.
Last edited by lmapt; 05-23-2011 at 05:15 PM..
Reason: spelling
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