Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Where I live in New England, new construction has R-49 in the attic and a minimum of 2x6 or 2x4 sprayed with closed cell foam on the exterior walls. All the glazing is argon-filled EnergyStar. The doors have a foam core and don't let the cold in. Heating and cooling costs are 1/4 of an older house. The A/C uses variable speed DC inverter technology and uses a small fraction of the electricity of a conventional A/C system. That system doubles as a heat pump to heat the house in the shoulder season for a lot less than burning natural gas or oil.
If you're willing to pay for it, you can install kitchens and baths that blow away anything you could get 30 or 40 years ago. Recessed lighting is all LED where you never replace burned out bulbs and your lighting costs are next to nothing. You can put "lifetime" architectural asphalt shingles on the roof that will still look good in 25 years. You can use plastic for the exterior trim that will never rot. The windows and doors are vinyl or aluminum clad and won't rot or fail.
Sure, you can buy a thrown together tract house in the south from one of the huge builders that is complete junk. If you're willing to pay for it, you can have a house built today that blows away anything built in the 20th century.
I grew up in a house made in the late 1800's, real dimensional lumber and slate roof. Carved details and arched windows. Wasn't expensive at the time, estate sale by bank.
Tornado went down the next street and it barely shuddered. We had pieces of other homes in our yard and we lost two slates.
It would have benefited from today's tech for insulation and weather seal and lighting, but the level of materials quality makes the average tract home look flimsy. Not only lots of nails, but square-cut ones.
In defense of new construction - it is up to the buyer. Everyone wants cheap. So builders comply.
Bingo. It's expensive to build high quality. Go to the lowest bidder and you'll probably get cheaper materials. In the Atlanta area, contractors used construction debris to fill in under the slab area. Then they pour the slab, build the house, sell it and walk away. A few year later the debris rots, settles, etc and the slab/foundation goes to heck. It was during the 80's a lot of times. Housing boom. We saw a lot of crappy construction.
It might be a difference from state to state but we're in CT now and the houses are much better quality. I say that sitting in a house that has NOTHING to code, built in the early 60's. LOL. Depression era babies built it.
We have purchased 3 houses within a block of each other in the past year. All of them were built in 1930. Average price was under 40 grand. All of them needed a little help to bring them back. All have plaster walls, one with concrete cinder blocks under the plaster. Someone gets upset and decides to smash a wall, they will break their hand. They all have beautiful hardwood floors under crappy floor coverings and they are all sanded and stained and beautiful. We also have most of the original solid interior doors.
Two of the three houses have the original kitchen cabinets. We are trying to honor the integrity of the houses' architecture many ways. That being said, kitchens of that time period were totally utilitarian, plain, maybe downright ugly. We refinished the cabinets, added some gorgous NON 1930 lighting, and painted the gross formica counters to look like granite [ really, beautiful]
All 3 of the houses have good sturdy foundations, mature trees, and little sidewalks in the backyard that lead to nowhere [where the incinerators used to be]
We are in the process of selling our large 1980 home in Bennett. We have been renting to a family with kids and dogs the past 3 years so there has been some wear and tear. As we finish repairing it before placing it on the market, there are so many lit tle "dents" in the walls that we are fixing. We are replacing the cheap interior doors with cheap interior doors. We are replacing the carpet, which is still in excellent condition[ bright green, what can I say? I am Autistic and that is how I roll]with some neutral boring carpet. I would have loved to find hardwood floors under the carpet but in a home built in 1980? Not a chance.
I think the old ones were built better. Off of the subject, but one of our homes built in 1930 is a tri-level home, which I was not even aware existed at the time. I have been googling and can find no evidence of when they were first built.It doesn't look like a tri-level from the exterior. I would say it is the shape of a slice of pie propped neatly on its' side. Very geometry inspired looking.
Wow! Very interesting discussions here. Looks like everyone has mixed opinions: some think pre-1970s construction was better, some actually prefer 1980s and newer. I'm of the thought that there are some shoddy 1950s-1970s construction, just as there are some shoddy 1980s-2010s construction, and vice versa. It's just that social media and the Internet has made it seem much worse than it used to be.
A couple follow-on questions:
a) Do you think 1980s-2010s houses really will fall down within ~30 years, like people have been saying? Houses built before 1986 obviously are still okay, most of them, that is, so maybe let's focus more on the 1990s and onwards.
b) I've attached two photos to this post. One is black and white, showing a photo of a 1960s house being built. The other is a Google Street View photo showing a 2015 house being built. Both looks EXACTLY the same when it comes to the framing/wood sticks - doesn't look any different at all (other than the roof and workmen from the 1960s house). So, why does it seem like many people love/herald 1960s houses as wonderful and solid, and today's houses as crap, stick-built houses? What's the TRUE difference? I'm still trying to get a straight answer.
Note: The 2015 Google Street View photo has a bit of distortion to it, so ignore any "breaks" in the photo.
House have been built the same way for a hundred plus years - some well built, some poorly built. The differences are in the technologies and materials available today make houses more efficient and able to weather the elements better. Of course there are difference between mass built homes and custom homes since the first pile of boulders was fashioned into a shelter thousands of years ago. Custom homes have nicer finishes and usually some of the newer technologies.
Old growth vs. new growth lumber - yes old growth was better but where it really shined was in the finishes.
Engineered lumber - the i-joists and engineered dimensional lumber allows for greater spans and less waste at the point of production.
Sheathing - 1/2" planks with tar paper worked fine when that was the best technology available. Today, plywood with house wraps or the new Zip sheathing allows for the prevention of water infiltration and allows for moisture to leave the stud bays.
Roofing - the new 40-50 years shingles will outlast anything offered in the past and the use of ice and water shield beyond minimum code prevents water intrusion.
Insulation - in the early days, it wasn't important. Today the foams and dense fiberglass are so much better than the layer of newspaper under the tar paper.
Siding - cedar IMHO is a great siding but it's expensive and requires maintenance. Hence the vinyl and cement options that reduce the maintenance.
Windows and Doors - double and triple pane windows with inert gas outperform the single panes of the early 1900's and the vinyl and aluminum exterior cladding reduce the need for maintenance. Insulated doors door a great job as well although a wood door is still a viable option.
Composite trim, railings, decking - again, all low maintenance items and the manufacturing process allows for a great variety.
One can go on and on. My FIL, a custom builder in the 50's and 60's marvels at what is offered today. He wishes he had today's materials back then.
I like old houses. If I end up living in a house built after 1930, you will know that something has gone wrong in my life.
While there are many variables, IMO, the overall quality of home construction has slowly gone downhill since WWII.
Yes, there have been many advances in technology. Some of them can even be used on old houses like: high efficiency furnaces, modern wiring, insulation in the attic, even ice and water shield if your roof needs replaced. (but a slate or ceramic tile roof--much more common before 1930--will outlast most modern roofs)
Other new materials, praised for being low-maintenance, unfortunately don't have the same longevity of what they replaced. While old, single pane wood windows need maintained occasionally, the new vinyl windows need replaced almost as often. (and, BTW, single pane windows, paired with a storm window, are just about as efficient as new double panes) Vinyl siding, while it doesn't need painted, will fade, and won't stand up to abuse.
But, for me, the biggest reason I prefer old houses is the quality of the finishes: plaster walls, lots of solid wood millwork, stained/leaded glass windows, etc.
Why are some of the wood "sticks" in an odd "X" position during construction? Obviously, the final product doesn't have any "X" wood beams, so I don't understand why those are there in the first place.
Like this:
__________
X |\/| | | X |
__________
Sorry if this wasn't the best illustration, but the best I could do. Maybe look at both photos I posted upthread and you'll probably understand better what I mean. If someone can explain why those wood "sticks" are in those positions, that would be great!
Temporary lateral bracing to hold everything plumb and square...
Not much dimensional stability until the siding goes on...
Wow! Big help you are, thanks! I learned something new tonight.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
