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Bergen County. So a $15,000 budget is reasonable to replace the floor tile, toilet, vanity, medicine cabinet, wall light fixture, bathroom, tile the wall around the tub and possibly the bathroom walls? Like I said, midrange fixtures, ceramic or porcelain tile, nothing too fancy, and no relocating plumbing or gutting.
You should be able to get it cheaper than 15K. I did everything you did (except I didn't change out the toilet because it was fine) and it was less than that. (I am in NYC.) I would think 5-10K, including materials.
Agree with others... $15k sounds steep, no? I am thinking $5 to $7k max paying special attention to good quality underlayment/waterproofing material.
In my area, last time I checked, we had about a thousand guys offering to install bath tile & like 2 that actually knew what Kerdi is. Tiling a floor here goes for about $2 a sq ft. Tiling a tub surround goes for like $10 /sq ft, but again, none of the guys I talked to even knew what Kerdi was, so no way I was letting them waste all those materials doing a job that would look great for a few years then need to be ripped out.
My solution was cultured marble surrounds. It's the same stuff the big builders use & while it isn't as gorgeous as tile can be, it'll give you a 30-year life & it looks really fresh, clean & bright for at least the first 10 years (then it slowly yellows) - it'll still look presentable for 20-30 years & you can have one of the epoxy dudes refinish it when it starts to look tired. I've pulled out 30 year-old cultured marble + never once found wet drywall or mold behind it. I always find "funk" behind a tile surround.
My steps & approximate costs for a "builder grade +" durable bathroom :
Day 1, pull the vanity, mirrors, grab-bars, towel bars, toilet, moldings, etc out & trash them.
Day 2. Tile removal crew removes old floor tile
Day 3. chop out old tub & surrounding walls back to studs.
Day 4. Plumber comes in & "stubs out" vanity, toilet & tub-valve & "sets" new tub.
(This process is similar to how a plumber sets up a bath in a new house, they cut off the copper piping & water valves & put in new "stubs" that stick out a few inches, cut-off & re "stub" the drain pipe for the vanity (usually with a cap) install a new toilet flange most of the time (then CAP the toilet drain!) jiggle the drain for the tub as necessary- usually, the new tub needs the drain moved a tiny bit to line up with the new tub, level the tub, install new Moen tub valve (moen is what many builders use here & if it stops working years later & you call a plumber, they've got moen parts on the truck + tub valves can be cranky when you're trying to replace the guts, there are special tools to get tub-valves apart & your plumber has the tools for Moen on the truck). During the "stub out" process, my plumber nearly always has to cut the drywall behind the vanity & toilet & the "stubs" make it easy for the drywall-dude to get right up close to the pipes so the repair looks like a new house).
Critical step # 562, learned from years of practice -
*get a disposable plastic tub "liner" from lowes or the depot, they're about $10 - put it in your new tub. Then offer to murder anyone of the future contractors/subs who stuffs tile-pieces, junk or tools in your brand-new tub. Check the tub frequently as work progresses & speak up if anyone leaves anything in the tub. Tubs are durable, but even great contractors will leave junk in your tub & the junk will scratch the tub if you don't make them get the junk out - the liner gets removed daily after this to check for debris under the liner, but it stays in place until all work in the bathroom is complete*.
Critical step # 984, remember the toilet-flange "cap"?
If your plumber didn't install one, stuff a big bundle of paper towels into the nasty-pipe & cover the flange with duct-tape, otherwise you'll get drywall bits, tile bits, & other junk in your main drain-line & your beautiful new bathroom will fill with poo at some later, undetermined date.
Day 5. Drywall dude comes in, repairs anything chopped out around the tub & vanity & toilet. Repair any drywall damage from towel bars, grab bars, toilet paper holders, damage from removing the old vanity, etc. this is your chance to get "perfect" walls, if you miss it, you'll be looking at any "boo boos" for 30 years, so feel free to nit-pick.
Day 6. The cultured marble dude takes measurements & paint goes on. Remember, there's no finished floor, no tub surround except drywall, no vanity, etc. hose the paint on - 2-3 coats will be necessary anywhere the drywall was repaired.
Day 7. New floor tile. Right up to the toilet drain, right up to the edge of your new tub, under where the vanity will be placed.
Wait a few days for the cultured marble dude to come back..
Day 8 is where the marble goes on - it'll take a half-day or so - they can add soap dishes & nooks to the tub surround & even a $100 up charge for those is totally cool - whoever uses the tub/shower will love you later if you add a few.
Day 9. Plumber comes back, installs the trim around the tub-valve, chops off the "stubs" for all the plumbing, installs all new 1/4 turn shut off valves at the vanity & toilet, new stainless supply lines, pushes the vanity into place, installs the countertop & faucet, faucet drain, assembles & sets the new toilet.
Day 10. Light fixtures, mirrors, grab-bars, t.p. Holders, baseboard moldings & such go in.
Typical $$$ outlay in Phoenix :
Demo & haul away - should be cheap, but I do my own, maybe $500 if you're generous?
Tile demo - minimum charge to get a crew out, might only take an hour, figure $300 & expect $200
Plumber - my guy usually charges well under a grand for all of it, figure $1500 & you should be good.
Drywall repair - my guy charges his minimum charge for this + drywall costs, figure $300
Paint - minimum charge, figure $200
Floor tile install - again, minimum charge, maybe $300 for a rock-star tile dude.
Cultured marble & installation. About $1300 all in, with a shower nook & a soap dish low, by the tub
Tub $150 (steel, could pay most of a grand if you want cast-iron), vanity $500-700 for a fancy one with a granite top, toilet $125 Costco dual-flush, faucet $150, tub valve $200, assorted water shut-offs, supply & drain lines, premium wax ring for toilet, tub drain, figure $300, combo kit with towel bars, tp holder $150, new gfci outlet, light switch, trim plates, baseboard moldings - $150, new light fixture & mirror $300
Handyman type labor to install baseboard, light-fixture, mirror, towel bars, caulk & finesse the details, figure $500 (and you're being generous)..
You can add it all up, I think you have a hard time getting to $10k worst case & paying Saudi prince type pricing.
Fwiw, I've done two bathrooms in the same house with almost the same labor charges - your plumber, drywall dude, painter, tile guys, etc can just move from one to the other & they don't charge hardly anything more once they've got their tools out. If your kitchen isn't marvelous, maybe have them fluff that too - it's most of the same trades & you won't get hit with much more than the cost of materials..
I think you could do it all for less than 5k if you are a good shopper for services and materials. If you have a habitat restore in your area check it out for lighting fixtures, finish materials. The ones in my area often get overbuys from the local stores.
You should be able to get it cheaper than 15K. I did everything you did (except I didn't change out the toilet because it was fine) and it was less than that. (I am in NYC.) I would think 5-10K, including materials.
I assume since you are in NYC you are in an apartment. I hear it is more to remodel a bathroom in an apartment than a house.
I wonder if I could do without actually hiring a contractor if I buy most of the fixtures from Lowe's. They offer install service. I would just need to hire a tile contractor for the wall, floor, and bathtub tiling.
I wonder if I could do without actually hiring a contractor if I buy most of the fixtures from Lowe's. They offer install service. I would just need to hire a tile contractor for the wall, floor, and bathtub tiling.
"Demo" or "replacement" is a big thing. That's when they discover problems. Like when they remove that built in plastic tub surround thing. Not sure who would even be doing that removal.
What is your flooring? If its tile it's a big job too, meaning not something you'd want to do yourself. If it's sheetgoods that'd be better.
I'd get bids from several contractors and that's how you'll figure more stuff out, too.
IMO the plumber is the most important. So I'd get a plumber to do the installs for any WATER items LOL.Especially if there are a few plumbers who service your HOA alot and know the deal.
If something "happens" it's you, the plumber THE CONDO ASSOC. AND the insurance companies fighting it out. The Condo assoc is, of course, going to want to offload the insurance claim on you. So is the plumber ha ha. THEN if you're on the second floor and have a leak your downstairs neighbor enters into the picture. In FL we have no fault but it's not really NO fault except each unit has to submit their own claim regardless of the fault.
I wouldn't want Loews there for that. This year I've seen about 4 circumstances like that right here in my condo building. Of course if your unit is newer, you'd probably be fine. And yeah, you could pick everything out from Loews.
Which brings to mind you could do it in sections. But I'd go with a contractor's advise about where to start and where to finish. Meaning maybe you'd do your toilet, sink and shower first THEN the tile last. I have no idea, just sayin....
One thing I learned on Flip or Flop is larger tile is in fashion and cheaper for the tile man than small ones.
They use alot of staggered oblong tile or oversize subways. white or Grey. Sometimes an accent tile sometimes not really. Tan is getting dated ha ha.
And the cultured marble was a great idea from that excellent post upthread.
Saw it on Flip or Flop hahaha.
One expensive house they used the slabs. And in the kitchen. Cheaper house the husband didn't want the expense so they put cultured marble fake or something. More like tile.
Last edited by runswithscissors; 06-28-2016 at 03:14 PM..
I wonder if I could do without actually hiring a contractor if I buy most of the fixtures from Lowe's. They offer install service. I would just need to hire a tile contractor for the wall, floor, and bathtub tiling.
I *would* source all of the materials you can think of yourself - lowes & the depot are both good for that. Buy your own tub, vanity, toilet, faucets, tub-valve, light fixtures, towel bars, mirror, outlets, switches, etc. if you want to save a few bucks go to gift card granny & get some lowes credits for about 9-11% under face value (basically they work just like a gift card).
I would *not* hire the depot or lowes to install anything. Their installers often suck & they charge too much.
In my area, last time I checked, we had about a thousand guys offering to install bath tile & like 2 that actually knew what Kerdi is. Tiling a floor here goes for about $2 a sq ft. Tiling a tub surround goes for like $10 /sq ft, but again, none of the guys I talked to even knew what Kerdi was, so no way I was letting them waste all those materials doing a job that would look great for a few years then need to be ripped out.
My solution was cultured marble surrounds. It's the same stuff the big builders use & while it isn't as gorgeous as tile can be, it'll give you a 30-year life & it looks really fresh, clean & bright for at least the first 10 years (then it slowly yellows) - it'll still look presentable for 20-30 years & you can have one of the epoxy dudes refinish it when it starts to look tired. I've pulled out 30 year-old cultured marble + never once found wet drywall or mold behind it. I always find "funk" behind a tile surround.
My steps & approximate costs for a "builder grade +" durable bathroom :
Day 1, pull the vanity, mirrors, grab-bars, towel bars, toilet, moldings, etc out & trash them.
Day 2. Tile removal crew removes old floor tile
Day 3. chop out old tub & surrounding walls back to studs.
Day 4. Plumber comes in & "stubs out" vanity, toilet & tub-valve & "sets" new tub.
(This process is similar to how a plumber sets up a bath in a new house, they cut off the copper piping & water valves & put in new "stubs" that stick out a few inches, cut-off & re "stub" the drain pipe for the vanity (usually with a cap) install a new toilet flange most of the time (then CAP the toilet drain!) jiggle the drain for the tub as necessary- usually, the new tub needs the drain moved a tiny bit to line up with the new tub, level the tub, install new Moen tub valve (moen is what many builders use here & if it stops working years later & you call a plumber, they've got moen parts on the truck + tub valves can be cranky when you're trying to replace the guts, there are special tools to get tub-valves apart & your plumber has the tools for Moen on the truck). During the "stub out" process, my plumber nearly always has to cut the drywall behind the vanity & toilet & the "stubs" make it easy for the drywall-dude to get right up close to the pipes so the repair looks like a new house).
Critical step # 562, learned from years of practice -
*get a disposable plastic tub "liner" from lowes or the depot, they're about $10 - put it in your new tub. Then offer to murder anyone of the future contractors/subs who stuffs tile-pieces, junk or tools in your brand-new tub. Check the tub frequently as work progresses & speak up if anyone leaves anything in the tub. Tubs are durable, but even great contractors will leave junk in your tub & the junk will scratch the tub if you don't make them get the junk out - the liner gets removed daily after this to check for debris under the liner, but it stays in place until all work in the bathroom is complete*.
Critical step # 984, remember the toilet-flange "cap"?
If your plumber didn't install one, stuff a big bundle of paper towels into the nasty-pipe & cover the flange with duct-tape, otherwise you'll get drywall bits, tile bits, & other junk in your main drain-line & your beautiful new bathroom will fill with poo at some later, undetermined date.
Day 5. Drywall dude comes in, repairs anything chopped out around the tub & vanity & toilet. Repair any drywall damage from towel bars, grab bars, toilet paper holders, damage from removing the old vanity, etc. this is your chance to get "perfect" walls, if you miss it, you'll be looking at any "boo boos" for 30 years, so feel free to nit-pick.
Day 6. The cultured marble dude takes measurements & paint goes on. Remember, there's no finished floor, no tub surround except drywall, no vanity, etc. hose the paint on - 2-3 coats will be necessary anywhere the drywall was repaired.
Day 7. New floor tile. Right up to the toilet drain, right up to the edge of your new tub, under where the vanity will be placed.
Wait a few days for the cultured marble dude to come back..
Day 8 is where the marble goes on - it'll take a half-day or so - they can add soap dishes & nooks to the tub surround & even a $100 up charge for those is totally cool - whoever uses the tub/shower will love you later if you add a few.
Day 9. Plumber comes back, installs the trim around the tub-valve, chops off the "stubs" for all the plumbing, installs all new 1/4 turn shut off valves at the vanity & toilet, new stainless supply lines, pushes the vanity into place, installs the countertop & faucet, faucet drain, assembles & sets the new toilet.
Day 10. Light fixtures, mirrors, grab-bars, t.p. Holders, baseboard moldings & such go in.
Typical $$$ outlay in Phoenix :
Demo & haul away - should be cheap, but I do my own, maybe $500 if you're generous?
Tile demo - minimum charge to get a crew out, might only take an hour, figure $300 & expect $200
Plumber - my guy usually charges well under a grand for all of it, figure $1500 & you should be good.
Drywall repair - my guy charges his minimum charge for this + drywall costs, figure $300
Paint - minimum charge, figure $200
Floor tile install - again, minimum charge, maybe $300 for a rock-star tile dude.
Cultured marble & installation. About $1300 all in, with a shower nook & a soap dish low, by the tub
Tub $150 (steel, could pay most of a grand if you want cast-iron), vanity $500-700 for a fancy one with a granite top, toilet $125 Costco dual-flush, faucet $150, tub valve $200, assorted water shut-offs, supply & drain lines, premium wax ring for toilet, tub drain, figure $300, combo kit with towel bars, tp holder $150, new gfci outlet, light switch, trim plates, baseboard moldings - $150, new light fixture & mirror $300
Handyman type labor to install baseboard, light-fixture, mirror, towel bars, caulk & finesse the details, figure $500 (and you're being generous)..
You can add it all up, I think you have a hard time getting to $10k worst case & paying Saudi prince type pricing.
Fwiw, I've done two bathrooms in the same house with almost the same labor charges - your plumber, drywall dude, painter, tile guys, etc can just move from one to the other & they don't charge hardly anything more once they've got their tools out. If your kitchen isn't marvelous, maybe have them fluff that too - it's most of the same trades & you won't get hit with much more than the cost of materials..
I didnt read your whole post but day 1,2 and 3 would take me and a helper 1 day to gut a bathroom to the studs. Especially a small bathroom like the op is talking about.
I didnt read your whole post but day 1,2 and 3 would take me and a helper 1 day to gut a bathroom to the studs. Especially a small bathroom like the op is talking about.
I broke it up into "days", but you could call the steps "stages" - and you certainly can do it faster, I've done two baths in five days with the tenant in place if you've got the appropriate crews scheduled & you don't have to wait for them. You never want to make tradesmen wait while another is working or trip over each other in a small space & they all want to start in the early am, so best practice is to give them each a day.
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