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In this part of our house, the corner posts go all the way up through the second floor. Very large horozontal beams (roughly 12 x 12) are run between the corner posts at the floor level. The large beams are cut out so that the corner posts are inside the beams. I cannot see whether they are nailed or pegged with wooden pegs, but in one visible location there are wooden pins (however the constructon is entirely different on this location, it is all big 12x12 beams with no visible studs, but that wall frames in a fireplace, so they built it differently).
As far as I know, any and all timbers will be mortised/tendon with a pin at every connection. I have never seen timbers in place without. It defeats the purpose and strength of the structure to not done in this manner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens
The studs between the corner posts are mortised into the big beams and then nailed. Again it is possible that the studs are pegged in and the nails were added later. However the nails are hand forged square nails so I guess they could be original. There are diagonal beams at the corners that run from the corner posts to the horozontal beams.
It is possible that the studs are pegged but highly doubtful. I have never seen a mortised stud with a pin. All have been just as you describe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens
Another oddity is that there is no header over the window and door. We had to put a header in to satisfy the inspector, but I am not sure that one is necessary with this type of construciton. (With a 12x12 beam taking the load, do you really need a header?)
Ah... no disrespect meant but many inspectors are idiots and have no business in the field instructing anyone (especially seasoned builders) ! That 12x12 has carried the load for over a hundred years with absolutely no issues... NO header is necessary (provided the framing structure was unchanged). Sometimes these guys are ridiculous !
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens
The 12 x 12 beams are not entirely 12x12. They are cut into a sort of triangle. The top is wider and the bottom is narrower (about 4" at the bottom). They were cut with an axe in some places and sawn in others.
Do you have some pics of that ? I'd like to see the application where a timber is cut in this manner.
As far as I know, any and all timbers will be mortised/tendon with a pin at every connection. I have never seen timbers in place without. It defeats the purpose and strength of the structure to not done in this manner.
It is possible that the studs are pegged but highly doubtful. I have never seen a mortised stud with a pin. All have been just as you describe.
Ah... no disrespect meant but many inspectors are idiots and have no business in the field instructing anyone (especially seasoned builders) ! That 12x12 has carried the load for over a hundred years with absolutely no issues... NO header is necessary (provided the framing structure was unchanged). Sometimes these guys are ridiculous !
Do you have some pics of that ? I'd like to see the application where a timber is cut in this manner.
That was not the only thing that the inspectors were idiots about. But that is another story altogether.
THe wall that I am describing has been re-plastered and I do not know whether we have any pitcures. However we left some beams partially exposed in a part of the house that used ot be an exterior wall and is now interior. They had boxed in the beams, but we had to remove the boxing and we liked the way that the beams looked so we left them exposed.http://coldjensens.com/files/images/DSC01587.preview.JPG (broken link)
Very interesting... there is no structural advantage to that so it must be cosmetic or to accommodate the original interior finish.
Otherwise... very unique ! And valuable from my perspective. I like seeing exposed timbers. There is an awful lot of character and craftsmanship in the original timbers as you obviously realize. I could never understand why people would cover them up especially when able to leave them exposed.
After moving my barn, I finished it inside leaving all the timber exposed. Actually the barn is livable ! Heat, AC Carpet on 2nd floor ect. After finishing it, it has more value than a new building of the same. History and character is something you can't build new no matter how hard you try !
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens
That was not the only thing that the inspectors were idiots about. But that is another story altogether.
THe wall that I am describing has been re-plastered and I do not know whether we have any pitcures. However we left some beams partially exposed in a part of the house that used ot be an exterior wall and is now interior. They had boxed in the beams, but we had to remove the boxing and we liked the way that the beams looked so we left them exposed.
Wow. How did you get the rug to stick to the wall like that?
I would love to undertake a big project like bringing a very old house with a lot of history up to date. The beams look great. Gives you the feeling of living in quite a sturdy structure, I'm sure.
Wow. How did you get the rug to stick to the wall like that?
I would love to undertake a big project like bringing a very old house with a lot of history up to date. The beams look great. Gives you the feeling of living in quite a sturdy structure, I'm sure.
Ya and those beams sticking up through the floor like that make for one hell of a toe stubber too...
As it probably does Coldjensens, I always found great pleasure in working on and restoring my 1880 Victorian (and everyone else's I've worked on too) to original condition using modern materials. Mine is a palace today and one can never get what a home like that has to offers from anything newly built ! Like I mentioned, history and character is not something you can just purchase down the street and build new...
When you buy a century home to live in and cherish, you are purchasing work and dedicating yourself to preservation of history, well at least me anyhow ! As you will always be doing something to it trying to bring back something from the past or reveal something from the past that has never been seen there before !
It is a pleasure. It is also nice to encounter some people who really appreciate the value of doing this.
This is the second (sort of third) hose that we restored. It is also the oldest. We had to move it to save it and then restore it. The down side is that coupled with the avalanche in the housing market, this house broke us. We were rich when we started this project, now I am digging change out from under the seats to come up with the money for gas to get to work. Other projects I did most of the work myself. This one was too big. I did about a quarter of the work and hired people. Pretty much all of them ripped us off one way or another. Now I am re-doing their work slowly while at the same time trying to figure out how to pay off the loans for the money that I used to pay them. Maybe some day I will find the time to file a half dozen lawsuits. This was a very frustrating project, but it was also rewarding. I hope we actually get it done one day.
Any back to the original question, does anyone know whether there is anything that needs to be done to this kind of framing. In our balloon framed house in California we had to put in shear walls (plywood nailed ot the studs) wherever we could, but that was for earthquake issues. We do nto have that concern in Michigan. Someone later told me that stiffening the balloon framed walls with plywood is stupid becuase it flexes with the motion and stiffening it up only creates problems. I never determined whether that is true. OUr contractor said that we should brace the mortised studs with metal hangers. My brother who is a hobbiest historical architect said that would be a bad idea. We did nto do it. (Seeing that the wall was fine for 170 years, why did I suddenly need to spend a lot of money bracing it with steel? )
It is a pleasure. It is also nice to encounter some people who really appreciate the value of doing this.
This is the second (sort of third) hose that we restored. It is also the oldest. We had to move it to save it and then restore it. The down side is that coupled with the avalanche in the housing market, this house broke us. We were rich when we started this project, now I am digging change out from under the seats to come up with the money for gas to get to work. Other projects I did most of the work myself. This one was too big. I did about a quarter of the work and hired people. Pretty much all of them ripped us off one way or another. Now I am re-doing their work slowly while at the same time trying to figure out how to pay off the loans for the money that I used to pay them. Maybe some day I will find the time to file a half dozen lawsuits. This was a very frustrating project, but it was also rewarding. I hope we actually get it done one day.
Any back to the original question, does anyone know whether there is anything that needs to be done to this kind of framing. In our balloon framed house in California we had to put in shear walls (plywood nailed ot the studs) wherever we could, but that was for earthquake issues. We do nto have that concern in Michigan. Someone later told me that stiffening the balloon framed walls with plywood is stupid becuase it flexes with the motion and stiffening it up only creates problems. I never determined whether that is true. OUr contractor said that we should brace the mortised studs with metal hangers. My brother who is a hobbiest historical architect said that would be a bad idea. We did nto do it. (Seeing that the wall was fine for 170 years, why did I suddenly need to spend a lot of money bracing it with steel? )
Wow... sorry to hear about the financial situation you are in. Hang tough... it shall eventually pass !
To help answer your question, if the exterior sheeting is original and intact and the structure is stable and plum, then there should be absolutely nothing that needs done to it. Who ever suggested you use metal hangers on such a structure is an idiot... Even if the structure was unstable and as long as the joints were pinned ! The beauty of such a structure is the fact that it does not need any types of metal hangers for strength, everything is designed better than any advantage metal hanger can provide. Exterior sheeting provides most all the bracing necessary in the structure.
After I stripped and moved my barn, i sheeted the exterior with 1/2 OSB. Just as in modern western framing the wall sheeting provides all the wall bracing necessary.
Exactly what kind of bracing are you talking about ?
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