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Old 07-19-2015, 07:19 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
20,514 posts, read 33,516,731 times
Reputation: 12147

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dalparadise View Post
You did?

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.7532...7i13312!8i6656

I think this is what they were going for--note similar proximity to the high rise district.

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7969...7i13312!8i6656

The developer missed on this one.
There's just no pleasing some people.
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Old 07-19-2015, 08:07 PM
 
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
2,535 posts, read 3,278,425 times
Reputation: 1483
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalparadise View Post
You did?

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.7532...7i13312!8i6656

I think this is what they were going for--note similar proximity to the high rise district.

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7969...7i13312!8i6656

The developer missed on this one.
Well I took your streetview360° and took a look around that neighborhood. First it is not a good one. Parts are ghetto like. Some blocks have new housing. Could be low-income?

But anyway.... what struck me is WITH A CITY WITH NO ZONING.... You have haphazard housing and new buildings like this...

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.7569...7i13312!8i6656

No CURBS. No SIDEWALKS here. UGLY POWER POLES ON THE PROPERTIES... on their lawns. Stagnant water. Perhaps no drains for run-off? OK I do see one.

You WOULD NEVER SEE THIS IN .....SAY A NORTHERN CITY LIKE CHICAGO. A city that had a PLANNED STREET GRID, learning also a lesson from the Great Chicago Fire of 1871. Houston had its Great Hurricane. Having then its Downtown moved away from the Coast

But Chicago also planned a new city grid with with a FULL ALLEYWAY SYSTEM for the UGLY POWER POLES, STANDARD SET-BACKS AND FULL SIDE-WALKS ALL ZONED FOR. Even its last growth of the city... curbing, uniform set-backs and street drains and sidewalks were required of developers.... and other guidelines. At least I do see a street drain and fire hydrant in the Houston streetview I posted....

Living in the East again. I do not like how older small towns are many times Row homes and Duplexes half and half side by side homes and a alley actually had homes. But they do have sidewalks and curbs LOL.

But for a BIG CITY LIKE HOUSTON. It should have had... SOME REQUIREMENTS IN ZONING AND REQUIREMENTS OF DEVELOPERS . Also a street grid that could be built uniformly.

Apparently it did not. It can give a city a 3rd WORLD LOOK in areas... This total lack of zoning.

Last edited by steeps; 07-19-2015 at 08:33 PM..
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Old 07-19-2015, 09:45 PM
 
Location: Baghdad by the Bay (San Francisco, California)
3,530 posts, read 5,133,216 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Lance View Post
Are you sure they weren't going for this instead ?

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7418...8i6656!6m1!1e1
Looking at the scale and proximity to the high rise district, I'd say no, they were not going for the Flatiron district. If they were, it's a much bigger fail.

My point was to offer a comparison of two very similar mixed use, primarily residential neighborhoods that are similarly close to high rise districts, and are themselves mid rise districts. Both purport to be among the most walkable neighborhoods in their cities. The Houston example does little to change perceptions about that condition in Houston.

You, in particular, talk about how density is not a great measure of cities, but do a 360 on those two very similar areas. The Houston one is a pretty ugly "urban" district. The lack of density in general, poor pedestrian development, and the architecture specifically are the driving components of that, in my opinion.

Last edited by dalparadise; 07-19-2015 at 10:35 PM..
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Old 07-19-2015, 10:23 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
20,514 posts, read 33,516,731 times
Reputation: 12147
ouch..critics. it is what it is. Oh and steeps, not to long ago, this portion of town WAS a ghetto. On the part of the street view such as this here is where I get frustrated with Houston:
https://www.google.com/maps/@29.7523...7i13312!8i6656

I don't get this idea of development. Why does the sidewalk just magically disappear? I don't get why Southern cities build neighborhoods like this. Especially large cities. It's like they wanted to discourage walking because let's be real, no pedestrian in any city, small or large, is going to want to compete with cars. If there is no sidewalk, they won't walk. I think the developers or the city, if not both, still have a suburban mindset on trying to build an urban environment and they simply don't know what they are doing which is why you get articles like this.
http://www.architectmagazine.com/des...investigates_o

Last edited by Spade; 07-19-2015 at 10:32 PM..
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Old 07-19-2015, 10:34 PM
 
Location: Baghdad by the Bay (San Francisco, California)
3,530 posts, read 5,133,216 times
Reputation: 3145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade View Post
ouch..critics. it is what it is. Oh and steeps, not to long ago, this portion of town WAS a ghetto.
That neighborhood--just the 10 or so square blocks around that suburban apartment complex--has been attempting to develop for over 15 years! Pretty slow on the uptake...

What should concern people, particularly those who see this suburban-style development and think it "feels like a different city," is the lack of a long term plan to change. Go half a block past the facade with the hokey crown. There's a multi-level parking garage, narrow suburban sidewalks, no street-level retail and the architecture is straight out of Sugar Land. This was a new development in the shadow of downtown, with the power to shape an urban neighborhood. They blew it.

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.7525...7i13312!8i6656

This is what Jack Lance compares to the Flatiron Building in New York?
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Old 07-19-2015, 10:44 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
20,514 posts, read 33,516,731 times
Reputation: 12147
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalparadise View Post
That neighborhood--just the 10 or so square blocks around that suburban apartment complex--has been attempting to develop for over 15 years! Pretty slow on the uptake...

What should concern people, particularly those who see this suburban-style development and think it "feels like a different city," is the lack of a long term plan to change. Go half a block past the facade with the hokey crown. There's a multi-level parking garage, narrow suburban sidewalks, not street-level retail and the architecture is straight out of Sugar Land. This was a new development in the shadow of downtown, with the power to shape an urban neighborhood. They blew it.

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.7525...7i13312!8i6656

This is what Jack Lance compares to the Flatiron Building in New York?
Here's the thing. This looks pretty good. Wide sidewalks, retail on the bottom floor, the building has nice interaction with the street and it's very walkable. BTW, I wish that development was higher than 4 floors and don't care for the stucco but doesn't matter now. Still a success for Houston IMO.

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.7523...7i13312!8i6656

But as you continue down Gray, you run into this.

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.7516...7i13312!8i6656

This absolutely blew it here. You build a nice urban development and then across the street, you build a suburban CVS that doesn't belong in an urban neighborhood at all. No way is this built in true urban cities around the country. Also, it's funny that you mention parking garages. I seen a poster on HAIF that mentions just that as it pertains to Houston's idea of urbanizing. They are focusing too much on parking requirements and parking garages.
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Old 07-19-2015, 10:53 PM
 
Location: Baghdad by the Bay (San Francisco, California)
3,530 posts, read 5,133,216 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade View Post
Here's the thing. This looks pretty good. Wide sidewalks, retail on the bottom floor, the building has nice interaction with the street and it's very walkable. BTW, I wish that development was higher than 4 floors and don't care for the stucco but doesn't matter now. Still a success for Houston IMO.

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.7523...7i13312!8i6656

But as you continue down Gray, you run into this.

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.7516...7i13312!8i6656

This absolutely blew it here. You build a nice urban development and then across the street, you build a suburban CVS that doesn't belong in an urban neighborhood at all. No way is this built in true urban cities around the country.
Agreed. And by the way--that first example was one of the first developments to go up in the area, about 15 years ago. The apartments were fairly popular, but leasing the retail was a long and painful process for the property owner.

They've been building mostly disposable, suburban-style garden apartments and low-end, low density townhouses around there since then. It's hard to develop the fabric of an urban neighborhood when people leave after their 1-year lease or flip their townhouse (or just lease it) after a couple of years.
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Old 07-19-2015, 11:11 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
20,514 posts, read 33,516,731 times
Reputation: 12147
Still I will say the density is increasing. But like the guy in that article said, you're getting the density without the benefits. Basically, it's starting to become like Miami more than like Chicago. Miami is dense but it's still not very urban and this includes the city.
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Old 07-19-2015, 11:40 PM
 
657 posts, read 739,751 times
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I don't see how people packed like sardines all around you is some sort of benefit.
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Old 07-19-2015, 11:41 PM
 
Location: Baghdad by the Bay (San Francisco, California)
3,530 posts, read 5,133,216 times
Reputation: 3145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade View Post
Still I will say the density is increasing. But like the guy in that article said, you're getting the density without the benefits. Basically, it's starting to become like Miami more than like Chicago. Miami is dense but it's still not very urban and this includes the city.
Right. I worked with the Midtown Management District for awhile. Not the most visionary bunch, or best use of tax money.

When I moved back to Houston from Dallas in about 1999, I considered those apartments in your example as my landing spot. They had a weirdly triangular apartment on the third floor available for probably 50% more than the going rate (I can't remember what the asking price was) but it was high for this oddly shaped that I couldn't even figure out how would accommodate my furniture.

Sensing my hesitation, the attractive blonde leasing agent walked over to the window and opened the shades, revealing a partial view of the (then) Continental Airlines building. She said confidently, "what do you think?"

I said, "it's nice, but for this rent, I ought to be looking at Coit Tower right now."

Unfrazzled, she replied, "Oh, those units all leased in phase one..."
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