Is the 3rd ward improving? (Houston, Cleburne: apartment, renting, condos)

[robertrulez]

Thanks for all the opinions, I have found a house south of 3rd ward that seems to be in a reasonable area, it is near 288 and 610 that's in scott terrace, which is perfect for me. Thanks again.

[TexasTheKid]

The neighborhood between Scott and 288, north of Braeswood gets my vote for having the most potential in the 3rd Ward. There are some beautiful old (and gigantic) homes throughout that neighborhood. Once people get over their justifiable fears of crackheads and prostitutes and take that area back over, it'll see a Heights-styled revitalization. That real estate is just too valuable and centrally located for it to continue to decay. I think it's more a matter of when and not if.

[robertrulez]

Originally Posted by TexasTheKid

The neighborhood between Scott and 288, north of Braeswood gets my vote for having the most potential in the 3rd Ward. There are some beautiful old (and gigantic) homes throughout that neighborhood. Once people get over their justifiable fears of crackheads and prostitutes and take that area back over, it'll see a Heights-styled revitalization. That real estate is just too valuable and centrally located for it to continue to decay. I think it's more a matter of when and not if.

I'm pretty young so I don't know much about Houston's history, how did the heights improve? Was it really bad a 20 years ago?

[EasilyAmused]

I'm in shock how much Riverside Terrace has taken off in the past year. Is that considered 3rd ward?

[TexasTheKid]

Originally Posted by robertrulez

I'm pretty young so I don't know much about Houston's history, how did the heights improve? Was it really bad a 20 years ago?

The Heights was pretty sketchy in most (though not all) areas 20 years ago. The good areas have increased from a small pocket to now include most of the northwest innerloop. However, 20 years ago I was an elementary school student living in the 'burbs, so I wouldn't place too much stock in my memory of the Heights from that time period.

Originally Posted by EasilyAmused

I'm in shock how much Riverside Terrace has taken off in the past year. Is that considered 3rd ward?

That's the neighborhood I'm referring to. It's a beautiful old neighborhood, and I bet if 288 had never been constructed, it would be just as valuable land right now as West U.

[modster]

Originally Posted by robertrulez

I'm pretty young so I don't know much about Houston's history, how did the heights improve? Was it really bad a 20 years ago?

Let gramps hobble over and tell you how it was back in the olden days of the late 80's & early 90's.

The Heights was where people bought when they couldn't afford Montrose, (it wasn't that big a challenge to buy something in Montrose for people starting out). Heights Blvd and a couple of streets were renovated, but you certainly didn't go north of 20th. In Montrose you didn't go north of Fairview on the part east of Montrose Blvd, both areas were considered really rough.

A lot of people I knew back then didn't think the Heights bungalows were the cool old grand houses and thus really weren't worth the trouble of fixing up. Friends and relatives in the 'burbs really didn't get it and thought you were insane to live in so-called bad areas like Montrose and Heights. It wasn't just those places either.

I remember sitting in a seminar sometime back in the 80's, and a lady there was saying she was selling her house in Bellaire and moving to West U because she wanted out of a "dead" area and over in one that looked like it was starting to go places.

In the mid 90's when I was looking at houses in Garden Oaks, priced in the 80's and $90's, I got a lot of disapproving comments. My suburban relatives thought it was too run down, the schools were bad, and it bordered some bad areas, why would you want that? my inner loop friends said, "Oh that is outside the loop, it won't go up. Why would you want that?

When I wasn't finding the right house a Realtor suggested that I could always go over to Knollwood Village off of South Braeswood and pick up something in the $80k range, but ewww, who would want that way over there?

During that same period I also looked at houses in Norhill, they were generally in the $70's and $80's but seemed so small. Also, back then when you bought in the Heights almost nothing was restored, a lot were estate sales. If you had central air already it was a big bonus. With most you had to install that, plus most had wallpaper over cheesecloth or cheap lumber store paneling and tile ceilings, so having to install sheetrock throughout was common. Now Heights home shoppers curl their lips if the drawer pulls don't suit them.

During the 90's I worked at that complex on Washington right at the traffic circle. The biggest obstacle we had to leasing those class B- apartments was the "scary neighborhood" behind us, it's called Rice-Military.

About ten years ago when Perry townhomes started building places in that wasteland south of downtown that was nothing but weed-choked lots, pot-hole filled streets, bums wandering around, and a scattering of old tired one or two story small office buildings, I remember a lot of people thinking it was crazy. "Who is going to buy over there?" "That is going to go downhill overnight! What a bad investment." That of course would be midtown.

So yes, areas can change and change quickly

[robertrulez]

Originally Posted by modster

Let gramps hobble over and tell you how it was back in the olden days of the late 80's & early 90's.

The Heights was where people bought when they couldn't afford Montrose, (it wasn't that big a challenge to buy something in Montrose for people starting out). Heights Blvd and a couple of streets were renovated, but you certainly didn't go north of 20th. In Montrose you didn't go north of Fairview on the part east of Montrose Blvd, both areas were considered really rough.

A lot of people I knew back then didn't think the Heights bungalows were the cool old grand houses and thus really weren't worth the trouble of fixing up. Friends and relatives in the 'burbs really didn't get it and thought you were insane to live in so-called bad areas like Montrose and Heights. It wasn't just those places either.

I remember sitting in a seminar sometime back in the 80's, and a lady there was saying she was selling her house in Bellaire and moving to West U because she wanted out of a "dead" area and over in one that looked like it was starting to go places.

In the mid 90's when I was looking at houses in Garden Oaks, priced in the 80's and $90's, I got a lot of disapproving comments. My suburban relatives thought it was too run down, the schools were bad, and it bordered some bad areas, why would you want that? my inner loop friends said, "Oh that is outside the loop, it won't go up. Why would you want that?

When I wasn't finding the right house a Realtor suggested that I could always go over to Knollwood Village off of South Braeswood and pick up something in the $80k range, but ewww, who would want that way over there?

During that same period I also looked at houses in Norhill, they were generally in the $70's and $80's but seemed so small. Also, back then when you bought in the Heights almost nothing was restored, a lot were estate sales. If you had central air already it was a big bonus. With most you had to install that, plus most had wallpaper over cheesecloth or cheap lumber store paneling and tile ceilings, so having to install sheetrock throughout was common. Now Heights home shoppers curl their lips if the drawer pulls don't suit them.

During the 90's I worked at that complex on Washington right at the traffic circle. The biggest obstacle we had to leasing those class B- apartments was the "scary neighborhood" behind us, it's called Rice-Military.

About ten years ago when Perry townhomes started building places in that wasteland south of downtown that was nothing but weed-choked lots, pot-hole filled streets, bums wandering around, and a scattering of old tired one or two story small office buildings, I remember a lot of people thinking it was crazy. "Who is going to buy over there?" "That is going to go downhill overnight! What a bad investment." That of course would be midtown.

So yes, areas can change and change quickly

Nice! The property seems like a no brainer.

[modster]

Originally Posted by robertrulez

Nice! The property seems like a no brainer.

weeeell....

I don't know. I see a couple of problems with Scott Terrace but again, this is all just opinion.

It is south of OST, which I think is somewhat of a dividing line between that area and the nicer sections off South Macgregor like Parkwood, Charleston, Rio Vista, etc.

I don't see Scott Terrace seeing much value growth or gentrification ahead of, or even at the same time as some of the areas north. I think over in Washington Terrace, for example, may see more growth before there. It is right across the freeway from the Binz and Midtown areas where Scott Terrace is a lot further south. I also think there are three ways areas spark gentrification. Usually it is because the houses are architecturally compelling to people and close in. The charming arts & crafts or Victorian bungalow, the clean lined mid-century modern, the industrial loft building, whatever. The other is areas that have no cool houses, but are location, location, location. These flip into redeveloped townhouses. Places like 4th ward, Rice-Military, Cottage grove, etc. The third way is gentrification by default. People are priced out of one or more areas and they go to the next neighborhood over. Priced out of Garden Oaks? Try Oak Forest. Can't do Willow Meadows or Meyerland? Try Westbury, so on and so forth.

I don't see any of those things happening over there in the near future. The houses aren't that interesting. There are a lot of places in the east end and Riverside areas that I personally think people will move into before they go there. I don't see the town house developers adopting it any time soon either.

I am still a firm believer that 77023 holds much more potential, or like I said earlier points north in 77004. If I may give some self serving advice as well, you could go just a wee bit further over to Glenbrook as well, which is cleaner and has more potential for improvement than that area IMO. Just my two cents.

[BADBILLY]

OK- everyone, I'm gonna start up the discussion again since it's been about a year since someone brought up the subject. What do you all think of Riverside Terrace? My observations...with some hip art galleries, coffee shops and now a blues club opening up on Almeda Road and the Austin-like Continental Club, Natachee's, Farmer's Market and Breakfast Club on Main Street... seems like change would be happening soon. Could Riverside Terrace be the next "Heights"? I'm looking at buying an incredible 1930's bungalow in the area and can't decide if it would be a good investment. I ran the crime reports for my current Spring Branch home and it doesn't seem to be very far removed from 77004 zip. And boy, you can't beat the location!

[300zxtwinturbo]

3rd ward isn't that bad just stay to the south of TSU/ Uof H and you will B fine, I go to TSU and spend all day and all night in 3rd ward and never have had any problems, muggins, smash and grabs of my car ect. Actually the south side of TSU is just mostly old black people in big well kept homes, while the north side of the school is the ghetto. The school seperates the ghetto from what is a older middle class neighborhood.