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Definitely not trying to advertise, I'm just trying to inform those looking of the things I wanted to know before buying. I don't work for HH.
They do make their walls/frames at central facility - they come to site already square and ready to assemble. From what I saw it was solid construction, except for a few points where the toe nailing on braces required re-work. The plans we looked at we're a mix of vinyl and brick or all brick. We chose all brick. Their pre-fab process enables more precise and quality framework IMO.
Also ask about any easements for fences and be aware you can pay for that upfront.
HH contributed 1.75percent of the home sale price to closing costs. Depending on your lender they may not do the same, but we were fortunate that our lender was familiar with them.
My co-worker that is an engineer told me that Hunter uses "components" (as he called it) and it's actually better construction...he said that the software that he uses everyday is probably not that much different than the ones that designs Hunter's framing panels and trusses. Basically, you have engineered computer software that determines the best structure including everything down to the nail placement and it's assembled at a central facility.
He said that builders that don't do it that way are basically relying upon "Bubba the framer" to be their engineer in making the cuts, structural integrity, etc. He said that in 10 years, everyone will be doing it that way, but it's probably cost-prohibitive for some builders because it costs more to do it.
He's a civil engineer (from Georgia Tech as he reminds me) so I trust his advice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by no filter no worry
Definitely not trying to advertise, I'm just trying to inform those looking of the things I wanted to know before buying. I don't work for HH.
They do make their walls/frames at central facility - they come to site already square and ready to assemble. From what I saw it was solid construction, except for a few points where the toe nailing on braces required re-work. The plans we looked at we're a mix of vinyl and brick or all brick. We chose all brick. Their pre-fab process enables more precise and quality framework IMO.
Also ask about any easements for fences and be aware you can pay for that upfront.
HH contributed 1.75percent of the home sale price to closing costs. Depending on your lender they may not do the same, but we were fortunate that our lender was familiar with them.
Regarding closings costs...is that something that you had to negotiate?
Quote:
Originally Posted by no filter no worry
HH contributed 1.75percent of the home sale price to closing costs. Depending on your lender they may not do the same, but we were fortunate that our lender was familiar with them.
My co-worker that is an engineer told me that Hunter uses "components" (as he called it) and it's actually better construction...he said that the software that he uses everyday is probably not that much different than the ones that designs Hunter's framing panels and trusses. Basically, you have engineered computer software that determines the best structure including everything down to the nail placement and it's assembled at a central facility.
He said that builders that don't do it that way are basically relying upon "Bubba the framer" to be their engineer in making the cuts, structural integrity, etc. He said that in 10 years, everyone will be doing it that way, but it's probably cost-prohibitive for some builders because it costs more to do it.
He's a civil engineer (from Georgia Tech as he reminds me) so I trust his advice.
While technically speaking, the roof trusses work together more efficiently as a system at distributing roof loads such as wind and snow; the flip side is that the large building companies that use them, use the bare minimum required by code and space them the maximum allowed by code. I haven't been in a Hunter Home in a couple of years during framing but the last time I looked, they spaced their roof trusses 24" OC, wherea stick builders space theirs 16" OC and directly over the wall studs. The roof decking and the drywall sag between the rafters and ceiling joists when they are spaced 24" OC. That has always been one of the gripes about a HH. They also use prefabricated wall panels which are well known in the industry to be built out of square and built with low quality crooked lumber. That is why the walls have humps in them and HH used to do the "textured" walls to help hide it. I'm not sure what they are doing now but the last I heard a few months ago, the homes were still basically built the exact same but they were putting brick on them.
"Bubba" won't work for HH, they don't pay enough for him; they get Elroy. He apparently doesn't realize that the roof system for stick built homes are also engineered. They are designed by the engineering firm/architect that does the blue prints for the home. They are engineered in detail down to the exact lumber dimensions and spacing. The engineered prefabricated roof trusses and wall panels have been in use in home building in this area for at least 30 years. The reason a lot of builders don't use them is because their roof designs are more complicated with hips, valleys and offsets and while trusses can be easily designed for them; they often result in a lower quality roof partly because of mistakes and issues that arise as well as the way it all has to be layered. The main reason HH uses them is because their roof designs are mostly simple (most of their homes are basically rectangles with no offsets) and it therefore is cheaper and faster for them with the emphasis on cheaper. Your buddy is actually incorrect in stating it is "cost prohibitive" as it is actually the exact opposite. In another 10 years, the upper end homes will still not have roof trusses or prefabricated wall panels for these reasons.
I'm not an engineer, so I can't answer your questions, but I will print off your email and ask my co-worker about it next week and will provide you his response. He's a very smart guy, well-respected. He doesn't do residential work, but he knows his stuff. I'm sure he will be more than happy to give a response (and show off his Tech degree!).
Regarding one issue, I specifically asked him the cost of doing the panels and trusses that way...I assumed that it would be cheaper, too. He said that comparatively between the cost of labor and the materials, it most definitely is more expensive to do it that way. He said that there is a premium for that, but that it saves on construction time.
What is your line of work?
btw - I moved here from Texas where EVERY house has textured walls, including million dollar houses. It's definitely not a reflection of quality. I personally like textured walls better. Smooth walls look "naked" to me! Ha.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dijkstra
Your buddy is actually incorrect in stating it is "cost prohibitive" as it is actually the exact opposite. In another 10 years, the upper end homes will still not have roof trusses or prefabricated wall panels for these reasons.
Last edited by CowboysFan49; 01-05-2013 at 09:03 PM..
The first time that my husband and I visited Huntsville, we visited several builders. One of them (I won't name) asked who all we were looking at. When we told them Hunter, they claimed that Hunter didn't "build to code" and that their "wall studs were too far apart," and not 16 inches on center." It actually worried me because we had liked them initially, and it put some doubt in my mind as to their quality. When we went back to the Hunter community, we asked their sales rep about this and he said that it is 100% false. He actually took us to different job sites, with a measuring tape, to prove it to us. He said that they've always done it 16 inches on center since he's been working for them, which was 2011. They may have done that at one time, but they don't now. Needless to say, we never went back to the other builder. It was a good exercise in doing your own research and not just listening to a negative sales pitch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dijkstra
I haven't been in a Hunter Home in a couple of years during framing but the last time I looked, they spaced their roof trusses 24" OC, wherea stick builders space theirs 16" OC and directly over the wall studs. The roof decking and the drywall sag between the rafters and ceiling joists when they are spaced 24" OC.
The first time that my husband and I visited Huntsville, we visited several builders. One of them (I won't name) asked who all we were looking at. When we told them Hunter, they claimed that Hunter didn't "build to code" and that their "wall studs were too far apart," and not 16 inches on center." It actually worried me because we had liked them initially, and it put some doubt in my mind as to their quality. When we went back to the Hunter community, we asked their sales rep about this and he said that it is 100% false. He actually took us to different job sites, with a measuring tape, to prove it to us. He said that they've always done it 16 inches on center since he's been working for them, which was 2011. They may have done that at one time, but they don't now. Needless to say, we never went back to the other builder. It was a good exercise in doing your own research and not just listening to a negative sales pitch.
Its not the wall studs, it is the trusses (ceiling joists and rafters). Not sure what they are doing now but I have personally seen the trusses on 24" centers in the past. From what I have heard, really the only meaningful change they have actually made is offering full brick and an upgraded interior trim molding option but everything else is the same. Who knows what they are doing now, they keep trying to reinvent themselves here lately to overcome the bad reputation and stay in business.
Its not the wall studs, it is the trusses (ceiling joists and rafters). Not sure what they are doing now but I have personally seen the trusses on 24" centers in the past.
I'm in the industry and have worked with just about every builder in town. Every builder that uses trusses, does so on 24" centers. That includes Hunter, Breland, Adams, and Jeff Benton. I do a lot of work in Birmingham as well, and its the same there. You'd have a real hard time arguing that stick framing is better than component building.
Regardless, every builder in town is building a quality house because the codes require it to be so. The City of Huntsville and Madison County recently began enforcing even stricter energy code guidelines, which were tight to begin with. A new home built as recently as 5 years ago isn't nearly as energy efficient as a home built today. As such, there's not much difference in the quality of any builder in town, and I've worked with most of them. Many of them use the same labor base and they almost all use the same suppliers.
Too many people associate amenities with quality.
"Quality" means how well the home is built. "Amenties" are the add-ons. Amenities don't imply quality.
It all comes down to people's budget and what they want:
If you want more space and choose where you spend your upgrades, go with Hunter.
If you want a craftsman-style ranch with a few included upgrades, choose Breland or Adams.
If you want a bigger lot, better curb appeal, more included upgrades, choose Jeff Benton or Pearson.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dijkstra
now, they keep trying to reinvent themselves
You act as if that is a bad thing. What do you think Apple, Target, Toyota, Samsung, et al have done? Google has an entire department devoted to reinventing themselves with a culture of continuous improvement.
I asked my engineer co-worker to answer your email regarding trusses and panels. Like I said before, he is very well-respected and I trust his opinion. Here's his responses:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dijkstra
While technically speaking, the roof trusses work together more efficiently as a system at distributing roof loads such as wind and snow; the flip side is that the large building companies that use them, use the bare minimum required by code and space them the maximum allowed by code.
Technological advances in construction methods and materials such as engineered building components have been recognized all over the world as superior. Suggesting the “old way” of building a home is somehow “better” is ridiculous. The only disadvantage to roof trusses is less open attic space. However the advantages by far out way the disadvantages. Using roof trusses is not a way to simply cut cost, in fact they cost more. They are primarily used to achieve consistency in design, improved build time, and ensure structural integrity, especially when a builder is pre-selling from a stable of plans. It means they have the ability to “pre-plan” the construction and have structural and aesthetic issues worked out before construction begins. As opposed to letting a framer, improvise and do it differently each time no matter what’s on the blueprints. A house using components is fully engineered as each component is designed specifically for the building, and the loads go where they belong. Components are done on computer-controlled saws, which make accurate compound cuts simple. All joints fit together in precision j igs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dijkstra
...stick builders space theirs 16" OC and directly over the wall studs.
...the roof system for stick built homes are also engineered. They are designed by the engineering firm/architect that does the blue prints for the home. They are engineered in detail down to the exact lumber dimensions and spacing.
A residential building permit for a single family home does not require a detailed set of blueprints with an architect’s or engineer’s seal. Blueprints, no matter how good, or detailed, are no guarantee they will be followed. Do you actually think a framer in the field is going to fasten every connection the same way each time? What if the weather is bad and they just want to go home? Think they might leave off a nail or two? Is the pressure on the nail gun always consistent? Nail size or type the same? Was the nail gun at an angle? You think just maybe there might be a short cut the inspector will just never see? Trusses are designed by a computer, precision cut and fastened together with large steel nail plates done with a machine and inspected in a controlled environment...the same way every time. And yes, there are high-end multi-million dollar homes that use engineered trusses. But typically the contractor will not spend the money for trusses if it is just a “one time” build.
Furthermore, suggesting a framer would actually stack all their studs, floor joists, ceiling joists and rafters at a perfect 16” o.c. is laughable. Go out to various job sites...you might be a little shocked at what you see. A framing crew could stick frame the same house 10 times in a row and frame it differently each time. In fact, the odds are pretty good that would happen.
As far as lumber quality being any different in wall panels versus site built...that is absolutely 100% FALSE. Lumber grading is determined by code. Typically, a #2 grade stamp is required in any load bearing wall. The difference is wall panels are built in a controlled environment on a j ig and not built from a pile of lumber sitting out in the elements soaking up water. Like roof trusses, panels cost more, because they are superior: wall are square and with proper nail patterns used. They also improve build time, consistency, and structural integrity.
Good post Cowboysfan...your buddy hit the nail on the head...no pun intended!
I know a lot of subs that much prefer to work with a builder that uses components...framers, HVAC, electricians, and plumbers hate making cuts through I-joists and prefer working on builders that use open web floor trusses.
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Hunter Homes Reviews
