HOA: what is and what is not mandatory/optional fee? (for sale, rentals)

[friday13]

Here's brief history: we are using MLS for house hunting (getting email updates WITH address) and I have recently noticed a trend where on some listings the HOA fee shows "optional". Mainly for amenities like pool and clubhouse ($300-450). For grounds is less ($60) and not optional.
I am personally put off and screen out the listings with hundred$ in HOA dues. Like Heritage is not even in my league (or rather myself in their league, financially speaking), but there are other subdivisions in the low 200's that have listed $300-$600 HOA dues. I take the house, but not the dues (at least, I would like to have the option/choice to be in or out).

So, for a person that searches MLS on line and screens the listings, is there a way to know what is mandatory or optional when it comes to HOA dues? Is it generally mandatory, unless otherwise posted?

I have never lived in a HOA/cookie-cutter subdivison before, and personally I don't even like it, but we have to take the leap/sacrifice for the kids (school). But, I wouldn't like to be forced to pay some membership to be able to live there. I'll take my money and sign-up for a swimming pool or other amenities someplace else, if that fits my life better (schedule, commute, etc). I am not saying I am a rebellious hell-raiser homeowner, but I would like to have a choice.

thanks

[Elizabeth_G]

Unless otherwise stated, I would assume the HOA fees are mandatory Certainly always ask for supporting documents before making an offer, or make the offer contingent upon receipt of documents, to prove the opt in or opt out option.

[wakeful dreamer]

I feel you on the HOA. We decided to concentrate our house hunt on new homes because it seems that prices for brand new construction and for older fixer-uppers are about the same. So a new home in a new development will give us the most, nicest house for the money.

BUT we know we will never use a pool or clubhouse. The pool, for religious reasons, is definitely out. The clubhouse - we might have our child's birthday party there, but is that really worth $350? Would we otherwise rent a $350 hall for a 4 year old's birthday? Not on your life.

The lack of available information is why we are getting a buyers' agent.

Thanks, Elizabeth_G, for the good advice!

[john050201]

The HOA fee is mandatory. Keep in mind that the fee could be increased as high as they want in the future if they decide that they are going to add or build a lot of other extravagant amenities in the subdivision. Those amenities may not have any benefit to you or your family, and whether you use them or not, you still have to pay a new high fee for those. Also, be prepare to deal with those over-controlling HOA presidents/officials who may think that they are kings and feel very powerful. Some of them are very dictative who can give you a lot of headaches just because they think they can or dislike you for some reasons. This is a free country and we pay for our property, I don't think we need anyone to dictate us. I wish that there are some builders that can build decent homes in a good subdivisions that don't have a lot of unecessary public amenities, but MUST NOT have or involve with any HOA. If people can afford to buy a decent home, I think they know that they have to keep it nice because it's their home. I agree we have to have some restrictions but those restrictions have to be controlled/ruled by the city instead of being dictated by the HOA.

[friday13]

Originally Posted by john050201

The HOA fee is mandatory. Keep in mind that the fee could be increased as high as they want in the future if they decide that they are going to add or build a lot of other extravagant amenities in the subdivision. Those amenities may not have any benefit to you or your family, and whether you use them or not, you still have to pay a new high fee for those. Also, be prepare to deal with those over-controlling HOA presidents/officials who may think that they are kings and feel very powerful. Some of them are very dictative who can give you a lot of headaches just because they think they can or dislike you for some reasons. This is a free country and we pay for our property, I don't think we need anyone to dictate us. I wish that there are some builders that can build decent homes in a good subdivisions that don't have a lot of unecessary public amenities, but MUST NOT have or involve with any HOA. If people can afford to buy a decent home, I think they know that they have to keep it nice because it's their home. I agree we have to have some restrictions but those restrictions have to be controlled/ruled by the city instead of being dictated by the HOA.

Your answer proves entirely what I suspected. As a matter of fact I discard ALL the MLS properties that have a HOA fee.

What I was saying in the beginning was a trend to list "HOA-optional"; until now it was mostly "HOA-yes" or "no".
Now, they are using this subterfuge to lure people (like me) that otherwise might be put off by additional costs associated with their home. Sure, you can opt out, but are you allowed by a dictatorial HOA committee/president?, I for one am not willing to take that chance.

[autobahn]

Also watch for special assessments. Depending upon how your HOA is funded, if the board comes up short on any special projects or repairs, the can call for a special assessment on top of your HOA fee. If you fail to pay it, they can place a lien on your house. An example is where Magnolia Springs had to charge each household money to finish the sidewalks around their two lakes when the developer left. I am really happy our HOA has been proactive in setting aside money in escrow to cover major repairs. If you have a community pool, the HOA had better be saving. Pool liners, etc. are very expensive when the time comes. I would recommend asking for a copy of the current HOA budget and actuals before buying to see how well they are saving.

[wakeful dreamer]

We just put a contract on a home in a mandatory-HOA subdivision. You better believe that before doing so, I read every stinking page of the covenants and restrictions, just to know what we were getting into. It actually didn't contain anything too foul. Mostly just a bunch of garbage about how high your grass can be and what type of fence you can build, etc etc.

In the end, we are hoping that having an HOA will help our home retain its value. It seems like a pretty nice subdivision and we really like the house. So the HOA was a tradeoff we were willing to make.

Although I still say it's a useless waste of $250 a year, or however much it is. And it offended me that on top of our dues, to actually use the amenities requires further fees and deposits. Not that we're likely to, but still.

[john050201]

Think about it very carefully before you buy a home that involves with HOA. Is it worthy to go through all the harassment and the high fee that you could face in the future? Do you think you could live in an area that have someone who can dictate you any time he wants, or will you be able to please that person all the time so that he wouldn't bother you? You probably be able to pay for your mortgage and HOA fee now. But if you get into some kind of financial problem later that you could only bearly afford for the morgage and could not pay for an increased high HOA fee, then they could put a lien on your property and bring you to court to collect the money. If they win, not only that you have to pay for the HOA fee, but you may have to pay for all their attorney and court fees. If you win you still have to pay for your attorney and court fees. They don't lose any thing since the fee that they pay for their lawyer and court case if they lose come from the HOA fee that they collected. I would prefer to stay away from any HOA. If I can buy a good home in a good area without having to worry about the HOA fee and their harassment, that is peace of mind. I don't have to worry about every little things since people who can buy decent homes tend to know how to maintain their house well, plus they still have to follow the city restriction which can prevent any major damage. Being a member of the HOA is not like being a member of a health or sport club that you can cancel and get out anytime you don't like the association or can't afford it. You have to sell your house and move out, and that will cost a lot of money and efforts.

[7spider]

I don't like HOA's, the fees or the dictator or group of dictators you find in these subdivisions, but you can usually tell the difference in the neighborhoods that don't have fees to pay or HOA's. There's always few people that don't keep their properties up or follow basic courtesy rules regarding parking vehicles, boats, trailers etc. so it winds up screwing everyone else. Best thing is for the fair, open minded, reasonable homeowners not let the small group of dictators run the show. I'd like to think there are more fairminded responsible people as dead beat or dictator type homeowners. Stick together and keep the extremists under control.

[friday13]

john 050201-

I am definitely on the same page with you there. For the same reasons, I choose not to live in a HOA-ruled neighborhood.

Let's face it, whoever buys a house over a certain price point, is not an irresponsible-lazy a** owner who would not mow the grass for months, or dump the trash at the curb, or beer bottles scattered on the front lawn or have 3 rusty rundown cars piled up in the driveway, or newspapers for window treatments etc. Not alot (if any) such characters would move into a $200+ neighborhood/subdivision ($300k, $400k, pick your number, the higher the home value, the higher the dues).

Sure, like in many other places, the rentals could drive down the resell value, due to dubious tenants. Again, what owner would rent a $200+ property as low as such characters could afford the rent?!

From what I see listed in the MLS, the money goes mainly to the pool (why is there a need for an Olympic-size pool, anyway?), and clubhouse, other amenities, and as it transpired here to the subdivision front entry landcaping, sidewalks (e.g.-Bradford Farms collect money for maintaining the street median-as a side note, there once was(is) a vacant lot for sale in BF, and it was contingent upon approval of HOA-huh?). Thanks, but I can live without all these.

But the uncertainty of the HOA dues going up willy-nilly was enough reason to put me off. Until ALL the houses in the my area of interest are HOA rules-bound, I choose not to even look at them for consideration.


It may be worth for someone on this forum to enlighten me as to why can't the City take care of the common grounds (like the median in the example above) since I am paying my fair share of taxes.

I understand where the neighborhood pool is an extra that the homeowners wanted, therefore should take care of it, but what is the relationship between HOA and the City in terms of sweeping the streets, lights, tree trimming etc. (HSV city trimmed the tree in front of my house because it was blocking the street light).

Is a HOA-ruled subdivision like a private property that City doesn't cross (except for trash pickup)? What is the deal here?

One more thing: HOW did we survive just fine in years past, before the HOA concept was born ?! (I assume this is a more recent gimmick).