corporal punishment in schools (Madison Co.) (Huntsville, Decatur: renting, middle school, pros and cons)

[friday13]

For those not reading the "general" Alabama forum, here is what prompted me to start this thread http://www.city-data.com/forum/alaba...unishment.html

Before posting this, I did a search on Hsv-Mad-Decatur subforum, and while I was glad not to find anything on corporal punishment (in schools) for this area, as a re-assurance these things don't happen in Madison Cty, I still want to hear from parents that this is really true: there is no corporal punishment as a matter of policy throughout the Madison City, Hsv, Mad county schools. Individual initiatives (teachers) should definitely be dealt with immediately and appropriately.

While these methods of punishment might have been ok and effective eons ago, I really don't think that we should live with this archaic thinking that corporal punishment would do any good to our children. I mean, what's next when the kids develop a tolerance for paddling? Fingernail-pulling, Waterboarding, gun-touting death threats?

I found some of those posts disturbing. That's not to say I don't believe in discipline, but please, let's not take it to the extreme. If the pain-inflicting paddling were indeed effective, then why some of the posters got it more than once? Violence sows violence. I do not want to go into an argument as to the benefits (for some parents-allowing this be done to their kids, or perhaps corporal punishing their children themselves), I just want to hear what goes on the school grounds.

[deesonic]

In Huntsville City Schools, as a matter of policy corporal punishment is allowable but strongly discouraged. Things have changed so much since I was in school here. When I attended Stone Middle School in the mid-80s Mr. Ford, our principal, walked the halls with his fiberglass paddle sticking out of his back pocket to remind us who was boss. He was not afraid to use it either. But Stone is a much different school than most of you are used to or would hope to have your kids attend. I have friends that teach in the city schools now and say it never happens anymore. I got my share growing up and probably deserved more than I received. But I agree with you that a school official has no business dishing out corporal punishment. That sort of discipline should be left up to parents to decide.

[southern by choice]

We are originally from NY and had never heard of corporal punishment. When our children began school in lower Alabama, it was a shock to find out it was on the books.....HOWEVER, no one could just administer this punishment to your child, the parents had to agree to it. If the parents didnt agree, an alternative punishment ( i.e. in school suspension ) was doled out. So I didnt panic about the silly rule. If the truth be told, all the kids WANTED corporal punishment, it was over in a minute, compared to the other. But my husband has always said, no one lays a hand on his boys, so they knew it was not an option. As their Dad always said, dont give the school a reason to call me, because you wont like the answer. You'll be sitting a long time in suspension.

[Keeper]

Please keep this about Huntsville and whether corporal punishment is allowed in the A: schools. This is not the appropriate forum to discuss corporal punishment in general.

[financelife]

I know from personal experience that paddling (I'm not going to call it corporal punishment, as if), was allowed even in the 90s. I don't know if it takes place now since I'm grown up.

Also from experience, the ones who usually got the paddling deserved it. Seriously.

[zenjenn]

I remember when I first heard of corporal punishment being used in school; I was a teenager attending school in California, and a boyfriend of mine who had spent 2 years attending school in Texas told me that they had this in Texas.

At first I was shocked and disgusted - but then he told me pretty much what financelife did; "the ones who usually got the paddling deserved it. Seriously.", and that in HIS school, he did not have to worry about being abused and teased by other children (we were both geeks.), because kids were afraid of consequences. Even though the paddle was used VERY rarely (like maybe 1 kid a year in a school of thousands) but it was such a mortifying thing (yes, mortifying - not the pain - the embarrassment) it scared everyone else straight.

You know, once he put it in that perspective, I was sympathetic to the policy. The schools in California, the administration is declawed, and the real bad apples know it and just laugh in their faces. Do you think a true punk really cares of he's suspended? Days off from school? They are ecstatic. The only real recourse to protect the GOOD kids from these jerks is expulsion, which takes forever to do with all the red tape - and even then, they just go to another school and torment someone else and laugh at some other school's teachers and principal.

[MonaLisaVito]

If it was ok and effective eons ago, why wouldn't it be effective today?

[amsa526]

I grew up with corporal punishment. I was never the recipient of them - but it sure made me straight like an arrow. I recall in 2nd grade - the ratio was 35:1 ... it was a mad house... our teacher was 'nice' - used lots of positive reinforcement but kids will be kids... in other words, to some kids, it simply doesn't work. When you have a low student:teacher ratio, a permissive teacher ---- and few bad apples ---- mayhem.
Going into 3rd grade ---- our teacher was an ex-nun. She was strict --- and used corporal punishment for the worst of the worst. She used it sparingly and I recall it was used only once or twice. It wasn't painful at all ... we had pants on the whole time ... the kids even laughed about it. But what straightened them out was the embarrassment - it was painful to think about it --- but once you received it ---- there was no sting at all. The pain that lingers was the shame.
I am a psychology major --- but despite my background ---- I do believe that in extreme cases, you need a deterrent... and you need to PROTECT the rest of the kids. Otherwise, mayhem and disorder will spread.
As to the exact form - it should not leave any scar or physical trace lasting more than a few minutes. No taking off of clothes. And it should be used sparingly ... the fact that it is used should be a warning sign that the 'kid' is troubled ---- and needs urgent parental intervention.
Our teachers need to be equipped with tools --- and corporal punishment should be an option but should just be one of many ---- and should be the last resort.

[friday13]

I've read the pros and cons and had to admit both are right. I may have confused the paddling (however authorized by parents) with a hard, ad-hoc hitting, spanking, slapping etc., when a teacher just snaps in a moment's notice. That's what I'm concerned about, teacher's actions that are out my control (and his control for that matter). If my kids were misbehaving and I thought a hard punishment would do the job, then I would maybe agree to it as a last resort. So far, they're good kids, and it is hard for me to imagine them getting their ar*e spanked hard. But again, they are only...toddlers...

Originally Posted by MonaLisaVito

If it was ok and effective eons ago, why wouldn't it be effective today?

Because both parents and children changed nowadays. I suppose there have been studies done on parenting, child psychology, child behavior, teaching etc. and there are other things to do instead of blooding them. For most part other methods work just as well: take away privileges, "toys" (Xbox, cell and whatnot), disciplinary actions-including suspension-but they need to be coupled with parent involvment. If a child is just bad to the core and the parents don't give a damn to correct his behavior, you think he cares if his hit hard on his behind?

Again, I was just appalled at the idea of what I thought was parent-unauthorized/unannounced punishment (kids being severely punished left and right on a whim). And let's face it, there have been cases were teachers cought up in the moment and hit the cr*p out of students.

[southern by choice]

At the highschool in L.A. ( lower Alabama ) my boys attended, it was not the individual teacher who doled out the paddling, it was only the principal. So the punishment was never administered in the heat of the moment, by the time the paddling was given, parents had been contacted, etc etc., and the paddling wasnt in the classroom, it was in the office.