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He's an illegal immigrant - that's all I need to know. He should be deported, paralyzed or not...
Call me heartless, but there many millions of people who entered this country LEGALLY, and many more waiting to come here LEGALLY. Why should ILLEGAL immigrants be allowed to remain here?
If the guy had fake papers he provided employer, I don't know if it's fair to come down completely on the employer. Now if the employer knew he was an illegal, then they have a responsibility in paying for the man's care.
If the guy had fake papers he provided employer....
There is a website for any employer to verify and perpective employee. Its called E-Verify. Currently under the extremely weak laws its voluntary to use by most employers.
If the guy had fake papers he provided employer, I don't know if it's fair to come down completely on the employer. Now if the employer knew he was an illegal, then they have a responsibility in paying for the man's care.
The point you missed is that the employer should have had Worker's Compensation Insurance, which would indemnify the employer against his risk in the case of all his employees, whether legal or not. Texas is the only state in which employers are not required to carry WCI, and it is the employer's responsibility to protect their workers against on-the-job injury---either with insurance, or paying the compensation themselves.
It's strange the hate that is stirred up when you even mention the words illegal immigration.
In this thread I have not stated my opinion one way or the other on what should be done...I only expressed sympathy for a man that was in pain and how he probably won't get the treatment he needs.
In response to my simple "oh how sad for that guy" I have gotten numerous DMs calling me a bleeding heart liberal (which I am, but still), a socialist (which I am, but still), admonishments, sarcastic statements "why don't you pay for my hospital bill since you love Mexicans so much", so on so on etc etc....
It's a shame people can't answer a philosophical question without getting jumped on. Makes me wonder what kind of world we live in when you are the "enemy" for feeling sympathy for brown people.
I'm sorry that people are sending you DMs criticizing you for your opinions. I believe that on a message board, if you want to criticize someone, you should do it publicly (or as publicly as possible with a made-up user name )
I just resent the fact that many of them bleed our system for all it's worth, and Mexico encourages them to come here so Mexico won't have to deal with them..
Perfectly understandable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathy4017
Our emergency rooms and hospitals are stuck with having to treat illegals, and we citizens end up footing the bill.
Well, not just illegals, but also American Citizens who don't bother to or cannot afford to get health insurance. But I see your point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathy4017
Our prisons have a large illegal population, so we're stuck with that bill, too. .
I don't agree with that statement. Could you show me where you got that information from? We do not house criminals for long periods of time that are not American Citizens (Unless you are talking about prisoners in Guatanamo Bay). When an illegal alien is put in jail for breaking the law, he is only in an American prison long enough to deport him. It's not like illegals are serving 10 to 20 .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathy4017
Illegals' cost to us citizen taxpayers as a whole is greater than the supposed benefits they bring in the form of "cheap" labor. .
I am going to need some proof on that statement too. I grew up on a farm, I have friends in the farming industry (the industrial complex one). Believe me...Hamburger meat would be $23 dollars a pound if everyone on the supply chain got minimum wage. I am not saying that as a good or bad thing. I am not offering any opinion at all. I just don't agree with your statement.
All in all, I UNDERSTAND why people are frustrated with illegals. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. What I don't understand is when your frustration with illegals changes from frustration to dehumanizing hate. Like for instance when I answer the OPs question with "That poor man" and I get a DM saying "Why don't you pay for his bill if you like Mexicans so much!"
When did SYMPATHY become a 4 letter word. I didn't advocate one way or the other, I just showed basic sympathy for another human being (and illegals ARE human beings) and I got attacked. I just found it strange. If I visit cancer victims in the hospital, would I be attacked by city-data posters too? Whenever the words "illegal aliens" gets mentioned on City-Data, some posters start frothing at the mouth. I think it's strange. Jehova's Witnesses bother me, but I would never be bothered so much that I would stop seeing them as human beings. Shrug.
In the OPs hypothetical question, there are many people at fault. The Illegal for entering the country, the company for hiring him, the government for not enforcing sensible and reasonable immigration law, and the AMERICAN CONSUMER for purschasing and demanding cheap products. There is plenty of blame to go around, I just don't know why we keep on having to kick the hell out of the Mexicans.
To me the only thing that matters is; a Human Being is hurt, he is in pain, we have the ability to treat him.....but we won't b/c he was born on the wrong side of a river. To me there is something morally wrong with that line of thinking. I completely understand where everyone is coming from, I understand their frustration with drains on our national resources. I totally get that and understand it, and agree with a lot of it. But call me a bleeding heart. When someone is sick, I think they should be treated. That's just me.
I think he was stupid for entering this country illegally. But he is still a victim here. He was hurt while helping people, the American people (who benefit from his work in the form of lower food costs), the American company (who benefit from his work in the form of lower payroll costs) and the American Government (who benefit from his work in the form of having a whipping boy for all of America's problems). So we are all more than willing to benefit from his back breaking labor, but when his back actually breaks, then it is off to Mexico for you Pedro! Too me there is a problem there.
I don't have any easy solutions. I wish I did. There are no easy solutions to the problem of Illegal Immigration. But that doesn't make my example above any less true.
EDIT: I actually do have easy solutions, but no one would accept them, and they are more appropriate for the Politics forum. But for the sake of the argument, let's say I can't answer the question.
Last edited by JayBrown80; 10-27-2011 at 01:24 PM..
I'm sorry that people are sending you DMs criticizing you for your opinions. I believe that on a message board, if you want to criticize someone, you should do it publicly (or as publicly as possible with a made-up user name )
It's cool. I wasn't sharing that with eveyrone to whine or to say "everyone feel sorry for me". I was just honestly surprised with the....gusto I guess...that people feel on this issue.
I sometimes am guilty of criticizing people on DM though, because the fights we have gotten into would not be appropriate for the genral forums. But when I do it's usually because they PERSONALLY asked me something, or insulted me and I felt the need to fight back. I have never done it just because I didn't like their non-answer to a hypothetical question.
I don't agree with that statement. Could you show me where you got that information from? We do not house criminals for long periods of time that are not American Citizens (Unless you are talking about prisoners in Guatanamo Bay). When an illegal alien is put in jail for breaking the law, he is only in an American prison long enough to deport him. It's not like illegals are serving 10 to 20 .
I am going to need some proof on that statement too. I grew up on a farm, I have friends in the farming industry (the industrial complex one). Believe me...Hamburger meat would be $23 dollars a pound if everyone on the supply chain got minimum wage. I am not saying that as a good or bad thing. I am not offering any opinion at all. I just don't agree with your statement.
But there is also no real way to tell who is illegal and who is not in all cases as far as incarceration goes.
Can you prove that they save us more in labor costs than they cost us as taxpayers? I'm talking the entire system--prison, medical, accidents with unlicensed drivers, schools, etc!
I grew up in West Texas ranching country--ranch labor, branding, sheep shearing, et al......we do need to revamp the system to issue more green cards, but not allow them to take unfair advantage of our system, as so many of them do.
When did my frustration turn into dehumanizing hate? I don't see that at all.
When did my frustration turn into dehumanizing hate? I don't see that at all.
I didn't say YOURS did. If what I said didn't apply to you, then assume I am talking about someone else.
Can you prove that they save us more in labor costs than they cost us as taxpayers? I'm talking the entire system--prison, medical, accidents with unlicensed drivers, schools, etc!
No, of course not. Neither can you prove the reverse. The only way to prove either is to compare numbers, and these numbers do no exist. There is no way to track them.
We agree that the green card system is set up in such a way that it punishes the people that try to follow the law, and encourages people to cross over illegally. That is something that is on us as Americans, b/c we do not insist our government make a sensible overhaul of our immigration policy (no, I do not consider a double sided electric fence to be "sensible")
Like I said before....Illegals are only part of the problem. There is a whole infrastructure in America that encourages people to be illegals...and as long as that infrastructure exists, people that demonize mexicans are a little hypocrticial, IMO.
Last edited by JayBrown80; 10-27-2011 at 10:21 PM..
He's an illegal immigrant - that's all I need to know. He should be deported, paralyzed or not...
Call me heartless, but there many millions of people who entered this country LEGALLY, and many more waiting to come here LEGALLY. Why should ILLEGAL immigrants be allowed to remain here?
In a way you are right,
but UTMB should also be held responsible for hiring him.
Otherwise, it will encourage other businesses to do the same thing knowing that if anybody gets hurt, they won't have to pay anything.
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But when I do it's usually because they PERSONALLY asked me something, or insulted me and I felt the need to fight back. I have never done it just because I didn't like their non-answer to a hypothetical question.
