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and deny students attendance at schools and the sick emergency care?
I can imagine a few scenarios...
The Mendez family immigrated to the United States in 2004. There was Amadeo, 25 (currently 32) at the time, who became employed in various construction-related jobs, and currently works as an undocumented roofer, Darely, 24 (currently 30), his common-law wife, who now works as a sushi chef in a Japanese restaurant; and Damian, 5, who was quickly enrolled into the Bakersville kindergarten and now, at 12, speaks fluent English. While enrolling for his seventh grade classes, he had to provide documentation that he was a legal citizen of the United States, as a new policy was recently instituted by the school board at the behest of local nativist taxpayers. He was unable to provide it. The school suspected he was here illegally and provided the information to the INS, who went to their home address a week later and ordered deportation.
Clio, an undocumented Guatemalan carpet installer's assistant, was working overtime and drinking alcohol on the job and sustained a second-degree burn when he accidentally grabbed a hot seam iron by the wrong side. His master, a slightly intoxicated American independent contractor, took him to the emergency room where, as a result of the hospital's new policy to cut costs, he was asked for identification. As he spoke little English and only presented them with a Guatemalan ID card, they gave him painkillers to relieve the pain but not the burn damage and contacted the INS.
Given the UN's declaration of Human Rights I wouldn't think that checking immigration status would be necessary. Every human being should be given the right to an education ( at least primary education in the USA per the Supreme Court) and EMERGENCY medical attention regardless of immigration status or really any other status.
Last edited by emotionalintel; 10-27-2011 at 12:01 AM..
It's illegal to deny the kiddies the chance to study in a public school, so that's not an option. I do think that the country needs to figure out a way to start tallying up illegal immigrants in the various areas. That would give a way to keep an eye on the spending associated with illegal immigrants.
Some people don't want to do that though because it would tell the truth.
The NYC Department of Education forbids schools from asking about legal status. I'm sure others do as well.
It could be seen as way to try to evade Plyler v. Doe.
Also remember the Yick Wo decision - if a law that is in and of itself non-discriminatory is enforced in a discriminatory manner, then the enforcement itself is illegal. I can't imagine any school district wanting to be accused of a Yick-style manner of enforcement.
Also hospitals are required to provide emergency health care, or else they get fined big time.
Some hospital districts only provide non-emergency care if one has proof of citizenship. Others give it, no questions asked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvdxer
and deny students attendance at schools and the sick emergency care?
I can imagine a few scenarios...
The Mendez family immigrated to the United States in 2004. There was Amadeo, 25 (currently 32) at the time, who became employed in various construction-related jobs, and currently works as an undocumented roofer, Darely, 24 (currently 30), his common-law wife, who now works as a sushi chef in a Japanese restaurant; and Damian, 5, who was quickly enrolled into the Bakersville kindergarten and now, at 12, speaks fluent English. While enrolling for his seventh grade classes, he had to provide documentation that he was a legal citizen of the United States, as a new policy was recently instituted by the school board at the behest of local nativist taxpayers. He was unable to provide it. The school suspected he was here illegally and provided the information to the INS, who went to their home address a week later and ordered deportation.
Given the UN's declaration of Human Rights I wouldn't think that checking immigration status would be necessary. Every human being should be given the right to an education ( at least primary education in the USA per the Supreme Court) and EMERGENCY medical attention regardless of immigration status or really any other status.
Everyone in the world should go to school here if you can successfully evade coming into the country legally? That would discriminate against people in other countries that want American education.
Is the supreme court always right, considering times change and people abuse the system.
and deny students attendance at schools and the sick emergency care?
I can imagine a few scenarios...
The Mendez family immigrated to the United States in 2004. There was Amadeo, 25 (currently 32) at the time, who became employed in various construction-related jobs, and currently works as an undocumented roofer, Darely, 24 (currently 30), his common-law wife, who now works as a sushi chef in a Japanese restaurant; and Damian, 5, who was quickly enrolled into the Bakersville kindergarten and now, at 12, speaks fluent English. While enrolling for his seventh grade classes, he had to provide documentation that he was a legal citizen of the United States, as a new policy was recently instituted by the school board at the behest of local nativist taxpayers. He was unable to provide it. The school suspected he was here illegally and provided the information to the INS, who went to their home address a week later and ordered deportation.
Clio, an undocumented Guatemalan carpet installer's assistant, was working overtime and drinking alcohol on the job and sustained a second-degree burn when he accidentally grabbed a hot seam iron by the wrong side. His master, a slightly intoxicated American independent contractor, took him to the emergency room where, as a result of the hospital's new policy to cut costs, he was asked for identification. As he spoke little English and only presented them with a Guatemalan ID card, they gave him painkillers to relieve the pain but not the burn damage and contacted the INS.
Your second scenario is not what would really happen. The hospital would have to not only treat his pain but his burns also otherwise the illegal alien could develop an infection and they could be sued. Nice try, but no cigar.
Your first scenario is not what the Alabama law was about. The administrators at the school were not going to report any student or their parents for being in this country illegally. It was data gathering to determine costs of educating them. Nice try, but no cigar.
"Nativists taxpayers"? Guess we know where you stand on the issue of illegal immigration right along with the smears by the pro-illegal side of law abiding Americans.
Your first scenario is not what the Alabama law was about. The administrators at the school were not going to report any student or their parents for being in this country illegally. It was data gathering to determine costs of educating them. Nice try, but no cigar.
IMO, I am in favor of the State of Alabama trying to calculate numbers of illegals enrolled in schools so they can calculate costs of educating illegals. However directly asking children "are your parents illegal" or asking for proof of citizenship could be construed as trying to obstruct illegals from going to school.
There are ways to indirectly infer who are legals and who are not - At Dallas Parkland hospital they do not ask maternity patients whether they are legal are not, but they are able to figure out who is legal and who isn't: snopes.com: Parkland Memorial Hospital and Illegal Immigrants
I'm not sure of the exact process, but I'm sure there are ways of finding out.
IMO, I am in favor of the State of Alabama trying to calculate numbers of illegals enrolled in schools so they can calculate costs of educating illegals. However directly asking children "are your parents illegal" or asking for proof of citizenship could be construed as trying to obstruct illegals from going to school.
There are ways to indirectly infer who are legals and who are not - At Dallas Parkland hospital they do not ask maternity patients whether they are legal are not, but they are able to figure out who is legal and who isn't: snopes.com: Parkland Memorial Hospital and Illegal Immigrants
I'm not sure of the exact process, but I'm sure there are ways of finding out.
and deny students attendance at schools and the sick emergency care?
I can imagine a few scenarios...
The Mendez family immigrated to the United States in 2004. There was Amadeo, 25 (currently 32) at the time, who became employed in various construction-related jobs, and currently works as an undocumented roofer, Darely, 24 (currently 30), his common-law wife, who now works as a sushi chef in a Japanese restaurant; and Damian, 5, who was quickly enrolled into the Bakersville kindergarten and now, at 12, speaks fluent English. While enrolling for his seventh grade classes, he had to provide documentation that he was a legal citizen of the United States, as a new policy was recently instituted by the school board at the behest of local nativist taxpayers. He was unable to provide it. The school suspected he was here illegally and provided the information to the INS, who went to their home address a week later and ordered deportation.
Clio, an undocumented Guatemalan carpet installer's assistant, was working overtime and drinking alcohol on the job and sustained a second-degree burn when he accidentally grabbed a hot seam iron by the wrong side. His master, a slightly intoxicated American independent contractor, took him to the emergency room where, as a result of the hospital's new policy to cut costs, he was asked for identification. As he spoke little English and only presented them with a Guatemalan ID card, they gave him painkillers to relieve the pain but not the burn damage and contacted the INS.
If school districts ascertain the immigration status of students, how would this "deny" illegal aliens an education? Don't schools maintain other personal/confidential data on students, including racial/ethnic classifications? This data would not be reported to ICE. So, how would it discriminate against illegal aliens, or differ from other data currently maintained by schools?
During each year of my sons' elementary school enrollment, I was required to furnish his medical records, signed by his pediatrician, as verification of his inoculations. In addition, when I enrolled him in kindergarten, I was required to submit his birth certificate as proof of age. Likewise, schools should have the right to determine the fiscal burden of providing illegal alien students a tax-funded K-12 education.
In Plyler v. Doe, it was argued that providing illegal alien children a tax-funded K-12 education would not impose a financial burden on states, or diminish the standards for citizen children. That may have been true when this law was enacted, but it is certainly not a valid argument today. It has been estimated that this is the greatest expense to taxpayers resulting from illegal immigration. In addition, due to massive illegal immigration, our schools are now severely overcrowded, and the overall standards have drastically declined. I believe every child should receive an education. But, I do not believe U.S. taxpayers should be forced to foot the bill for the untold millions of children living in this country illegally. Nor do I believe the education of our own children should suffer to accommodate them.
In my opinion, every human being with a bona fide medical emergency should receive treatment, irrespective of ability to pay, or immigration status. However, once stabilized, if the patient is here illegally, they should be returned to their country of origin.
If the school has a mechanism which on the face is simply a way of recording data, but in reality is a way of intimidating illegals into leaving, then it could get a judgment similar to the one at Yick Wo.
Whether one believes it is a "good thing," I don't think a direct measure would work constitutionally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC
Thats a good thing correct?
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