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I personally know a lot of Navajos and Pueblos in New Mexico who don't think that Mexicans of indigenous background ever 'ruled' their lands in present day U.S.A. and share most of the same concerns as other Americans about illegal immigration or even easy immigration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute
It's pure ignorance. Mexicans may have some native-Mexican ancestry but virtually none are "pure" indigenous as most are mestizos with as much African and European ancestry as indigenous.
To say that "virtually none" of the Mexican people are pure indigenous is untrue. About 10% of Mexicans, a population of about 10 million, are considered indigenous and that is a figure that is considered under-reported. There is a serious stigma in Mexico against "indios" so many full blooded natives, especially those who do not speak their native language, declare themselves 'mestizo'. A friend of mine, a Mayan (native speaker and all), told me that the only people in Mexico who actually like and use the term 'mestizo' are indigenous Mexicans trying to obfuscate their ethnic background.
Now if by "pure" you meant that they cannot have a single non-native ancestor, then there is not a pure ethnic group pon earth and never has been at least since the last periglacial about 10,000 years ago. Every German has at least a few Asian ancestors and quite possibly some recent (last 500 years) Semitic ones.
Other than those points, I agree strongly with the point you were making in your post.
Last edited by ABQConvict; 12-22-2011 at 08:54 PM..
They argue that just because their tribal ancestors were indigenous to this continent even though they never settled within our borders that they as their descendants have the right to wander all over this continent at will. I think the Apache, Comanche, etc. tribes that did settle within the U.S. would have something to say about that.
All humans are indigenous to this planet so what was their beef when the Europeans came here? Shouldn't they have had the right to wander all over this planet at will then based on their logic?
Here's a solution: Put them on a boat, and send them to China, since they want to reclaim their 'original homeland.' They can work out their country of origin in Asia after they get there. Let's see how that works.
It's pure ignorance. Mexicans may have some native-Mexican ancestry but virtually none are "pure" indigenous as most are mestizos with as much African and European ancestry as indigenous. Very few Mexicans are classified as "indios" and it's meaningless anyhow because the ancestral lands of those "indios" are in the southern states, never did they live north of the current border.
Imagine if these same people believed they could relocate enmasse to any country in Asia because their long-ago "indio" ancestors came from Asia.
You only see this with that one country or couple of countries. You don't have all people in France figuring they can ignore immigration laws because Louisiana once belonged to France, you don't see the Russians demanding unlimited immigration because Alaska was once part of Russia. And certainly the Vikings traveled along the coasts of Iceland and Greenland and arrived here but you don't see their descendents claiming some special right to break the laws.
These people are using the same arguments that a group in Germany once used, a racial definition of a nation. The USA in fact is the most diverse nation as far as race and ethnicity that has ever existed, and we've been the most diverse since the start. But the La Raza types insist that they have some racial right to take this land, and they despise this country and it's culture and people.
All excellent points. I would love for just one of these reconquistas to respond to this but I won't hold my breath.
I personally know a lot of Navajos and Pueblos in New Mexico who don't think that Mexicans of indigenous background ever 'ruled' their lands in present day U.S.A. and share most of the same concerns as other Americans about illegal immigration or even easy immigration.
To say that "virtually none" of the Mexican people are pure indigenous is untrue. About 10% of Mexicans, a population of about 10 million, are considered indigenous and that is a figure that is considered under-reported. There is a serious stigma in Mexico against "indios" so many full blooded natives, especially those who do not speak their native language, declare themselves 'mestizo'. A friend of mine, a Mayan (native speaker and all), told me that the only people in Mexico who actually like and use the term 'mestizo' are indigenous Mexicans trying to obfuscate their ethnic background.
Now if by "pure" you meant that they cannot have a single non-native ancestor, then there is not a pure ethnic group pon earth and never has been at least since the last periglacial about 10,000 years ago. Every German has at least a few Asian ancestors and quite possibly some recent (last 500 years) Semitic ones.
Other than those points, I agree strongly with the point you were making in your post.
Hybrid vigor is what saved the descendents of the Indians who had it.
In the early days of Mexico, small pox and other diseases wiped out so many people that the population of the Indians was down to about 1,000,000 and at that time the population from Africa was 800,000 and the population from Spain was much lower.
The mixing was a good thing because that allowed the Indians to gain some of the genetic immunity from diseases that were brought in, but it ended the "purity". Even the famous soup called "menudo" was brought in by the slaves to Mexico.
Just like the USA, Mexico is mixed race and ethnicity, it's culture is influenced by all the earlier cultures but also by the cultures brought in by other ethnicities later on. There is quite a bit of German influence too - you can hear the polka sounds in much of the music, the accordian.
The cultures and ethnicities of the past are long gone. There isn't much left of the Aztec culture and religion for example - good thing too since it involved so much human sacrifice. They didn't eat beef back then or use flour. No flour tortillas or beef for deshebrada burritos. No charreadas either because there were no burros or horses or cows before the Spaniards came. Mexican culture isn't indigenous but it has some influences of it.
And yes, the classification in Mexico is different than ours, because it's actually less about "blood" or genetics but how one lives culturally. An "indio" speaks an native language, lives more isolated from standard Mexican culture but not necessarily racially pure. If they live like mestizos, they are considered mestizos and that's what almost everyone is.
It's not so much different than one group in Germany deciding that there was some "purity" they had and had to maintain, or that only one ethnic group could own Germany and then move on to take all of Europe. That's another reason this La Raza stuff is so dangerous.
The other dangerous aspect of the La Raza reconquista movements is that they are actually doing all they can to destabilize their own countries. They want to bring as many over here as they can, and very quickly. They don't care at all what that does to their villages and regions back home. They don't care about the abandoned children, the abandoned elderly, the empty houses that invite criminals and gang members, drug dealers to their old neighborhoods.
There are articles in the Mexican newspapers about the lonely and very impoverished elderly, most who had kids but those kids left them and live it up in the USA, even if they send money back now and then it's not the same as the family togetherness that once existed. Same for the kids they abandon in their pursuit of the big easy almighty American dollar. Money isn't enough to raise kids, even if they remember to wire some money back to them now and then. Money doesn't replace parents in the home.
The other dangerous aspect of the La Raza reconquista movements is that they are actually doing all they can to destabilize their own countries. They want to bring as many over here as they can, and very quickly. They don't care at all what that does to their villages and regions back home. They don't care about the abandoned children, the abandoned elderly, the empty houses that invite criminals and gang members, drug dealers to their old neighborhoods.
There are articles in the Mexican newspapers about the lonely and very impoverished elderly, most who had kids but those kids left them and live it up in the USA, even if they send money back now and then it's not the same as the family togetherness that once existed. Same for the kids they abandon in their pursuit of the big easy almighty American dollar. Money isn't enough to raise kids, even if they remember to wire some money back to them now and then. Money doesn't replace parents in the home.
Just like any other criminal mind set
If they would put forth as much effort as they do by coming illegally
into doing it legally they would much further ahead
Great point " Money doesn't replace parents in the home "
I personally know a lot of Navajos and Pueblos in New Mexico who don't think that Mexicans of indigenous background ever 'ruled' their lands in present day U.S.A. and share most of the same concerns as other Americans about illegal immigration or even easy immigration.
To say that "virtually none" of the Mexican people are pure indigenous is untrue. About 10% of Mexicans, a population of about 10 million, are considered indigenous and that is a figure that is considered under-reported. There is a serious stigma in Mexico against "indios" so many full blooded natives, especially those who do not speak their native language, declare themselves 'mestizo'. A friend of mine, a Mayan (native speaker and all), told me that the only people in Mexico who actually like and use the term 'mestizo' are indigenous Mexicans trying to obfuscate their ethnic background.
Now if by "pure" you meant that they cannot have a single non-native ancestor, then there is not a pure ethnic group pon earth and never has been at least since the last periglacial about 10,000 years ago. Every German has at least a few Asian ancestors and quite possibly some recent (last 500 years) Semitic ones.
Other than those points, I agree strongly with the point you were making in your post.
I am not so sure about your figures on the indigenous population because the CIA fact-book puts the number of "pure" Indians in Mexico at 30 percent and the Mestizo population at 65 or 70% which tips the scale a little more.
I am not so sure about your figures on the indigenous population because the CIA fact-book puts the number of "pure" Indians in Mexico at 30 percent and the Mestizo population at 65 or 70% which tips the scale a little more.
National Mexican Institute of Statistics - Mexico's census has a much lower percentage. Their definition of Indian is not as much racist as ours, more cultural of a definition.
They tend to count those who speak one of the 62 indigenous languages as Indian. Those who live the Mexican culture and speak the Mexican language tend to be seen as "Mexican". We're more into the mestizo classification than they are over there, people in Mexico see themselves as Mexican not mestizo even if that's what most are. They're more into a cultural classification.
In a way their categorization is better - if someone lives the Mexican culture, speaks Spanish the shade of their skin isn't all-important, they're Mexicans.
It's those who come here who get all this racist notions and La Raza influences and start thinking that even if they don't know a single word of a Mexican indigenous language they are entitled to go anywhere and do whatever they please in the USA, using some La Raza racist excuse.
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