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Leaving the Bible out of any discussion about illegal immigration might be a good idea. However, as a person unaffiliated with any religious organization, I've always felt it a bit unfair that it's "open season" on all my ideas, while the person who can claim some church or temple membership enjoys immunity to reasonable scrutiny, question, doubt or criticism. Especially in the United States, a religion is a chosen ideology usually including mandates regarding behavior and lifestyle. If you choose to believe something and you choose to behave according to certain principles, I see no reason why you should not be held accountable and responsible for your beliefs and practices. I, too, find the general attitudes expressed on these forums toward undocumented residents to be at odds with my understanding of what Christian attitudes are advertised to be.
But I have mixed feelings about how to handle the situation. I don't want to offend people of good faith and good will, and I wouldn't want the discussion to deteriorate into a religious quarrel. But, if some beliefs and practices of an organized religion have had clear impact on the realities being discussed, avoiding the topic of religion might constitute an avoidance of mentioning factors having direct bearing on the realities we are examining.
As macmeal points out, Judeo-Christian scripture has little to say about driving under the influence of prescribed psychotropic drugs, nor do I know of any New Testament mention of glue-sniffing or identity theft.
I often feel tempted to take a poll of the basic beliefs of all forum participants just to see if there is any chance of our ever having a true discussion about illegal immigration. As I scan over most posts, I get the uneasy feeling that the true purpose of the forums is to give people who are so inclined an opportunity to vent their frustration and anger provoked by the large numbers of undocumented Mexicans in their home areas. There is nothing really wrong with that. Both countries, the US and Mexico, are in nearly catastrophic situations. However, I did not jump into the conversation to either win a debate or to persuade frustrated Americans that they have to "like" Mexicans.
I had hoped that some among you might be interested in exploring some reasonable and humane way to satisfy our respective wishes. Many of you want Mexicans to go home, and I want Mexicans to STAY home in a Mexico made livable for Mexicans.
I can't make any headway if the majority of the forum participants are interested only in endlessly repeating that they don't like the Mexican presence in their country. I confess that I have disappointingly little to offer in terms of good ideas or solutions. I have suggested - insisted - that one way to discourage the presence of undocumented workers is to quit hiring them, but most responses to that suggestion were mere repetitions of the complaints about the numbers of undocumented workers in the US. I'm assuming that most of you are writing from the US and are citizens of what continues to be the world's most powerful nation. I had hoped that you might offer some humane remedies aside from vigilante aggression or the building of great walls and fences toward solving your problem with undocumented workers.
If, in fact, most of you claim to be Christian, and if, in fact, you are better educated than your ignorant neighbors south of the Rio Grande, I would kinda like to see better evidence.
I was called upon to address the issue of ignorance in Mexico. I'm now wondering if I shouldn't ask some of you to return the favor by conceding that the comments on these forums from Americans don't demonstrate any remarkable breadth or depth of knowledge --- about anything. None of us seem to be very promising candidates for playing and winning at "Jeopardy." Maybe Mexico isn't the only country in North America with a failed educational system and prevailing ignorance.
Well, I will do my best to disregard the prevailing Christian presence on these forums, by pretending not to see the posts suggesting that Mexicans should be blown away, and I will do my best to avoid the topic of religion.
But, if all I'm doing is interrupting a forum intended to give frustrated Americans an opportunity to vent their anger against Mexicans, please advise me, and I will cease and desist from interrupting your exclusive group-therapy sessions. I'm used to being an unwanted presence, but I wouldn't want to stand in the way of anybody's efforts to achieve mental health.
If I'm not driven out, or stuck behind a fence, I really wish I could get a little more support from the rest of you in guiding the discussion toward more relevant and humane views and issues --- assuming that this forum is really intended for the discussion of illegal immigration. Maybe we could work toward coming up with more constructive solutions to the problems of both nations. Maybe we could behave more like fellow human beings rather than angry reactionaries or campus hotshots who simply want to win debates rather than face realities.
But, it's your world. I'm just passing through on the south side of the river.
I note that you called illegal aliens "undocumented workers". That kind of tells me which side of this issue you are on. I have no desire to see anyone harmed. I am just fed up with our government not securring our borders and our country being in financial diress partially due to our tax dollars going to support illegal foreigners in our country.
I disagree with you about the fence/wall. I think it is a necessary tool that is being installed only in the most porous areas. It is a deterrant to both illegal entry for economic gain and to deter terrorists from entering our country in that manner. It is also there to help the Border Patrol do their jobs easier.
I have often brought up the necessity to mandate e-verify to be used by every employer. Jobs are the magnet that bring those illegals seeking economic gain in our country but the pro-illegal side doesn't want that because they don't want the illegals to leave or to stop coming all in the name of their misplaced humanitarism. They have plenty of humanitarian sentiments towards illegal foreigners but apparently none for their fellow countrymen who are having to bear the brunt of this illegal invasion. They have no concern for our population growth or depletion of our natural resources either.
The solution lies with Mexico and other countries to change their ways and to provide an economy whereby their citizens can make a decent living and stay in their own countries. The only way we can force them to do that is to secure our borders and deport their citizens back to their homelands and to remove any incentives for them to continue to come here. Those governments will get the message that we will no longer be the keeper of the world's poor and they need to be responsible for their own citizens.
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Regarding this forum, I went out searching for good, informative sites that I hoped participants might visit and study so that we would all have something a bit more substantial to discuss. I was going to paste the URLs so that everybody could get up to speed and have some clue about what is going on with the bigger picture, and how they might consider that the fate of Mexico will have more than local Mexican impact. Then I browsed over more posts related to immigration issues and saw that the chances of persuading such people to read and reason through the complex issues would be out of the question. I've noticed a decline in the quality of Net forums since the 80's. And, as you've probably noticed, when you find a group of people who make you feel like challenging their knowledge and logic is like stealing milk from a baby, they are the ones with the greatest confidence in their own unsubstantiated and erroneous beliefs and their own seriously limited abilities. A major problem with public debates is that they are inevitably and invariably won by people who can best articulate what the majority of listeners WANT to believe. Never mind that a debate is one thing and reality quite another.
So, if I don't win any popularity contests with my views on this forum, I guess I'll just have to pick up the pieces of my life and go on living somehow. Maybe I'll just drown my sorrows in a bottle of tequila. In the meantime, up to that time of when or if I am removed, chastised, exiled, or called a nasty name, I intend to go on presenting my knowledge, my views, and my reasons as kindly and rationally as possible.
I have had experiences - such as those you predict will happen to me here - while on other forums. People would send me thoughtful and intelligent messages such as "Why don't you go back with your stupid Mexican friends to where you came from." I hardly knew what to do since, at the time, I was already with my stupid Mexican friends in Mexico. I'll have the same problem if somebody on this forum advises stupid old me to go back with my stupid old friends in stupid old Mexico. But such talk is typical of people whose true concern with immigration is that they simply don't like Mexicans or anybody else who may speak a different language or be another shade of white or black. They deny this narrow mindedness, even to themselves, but when it becomes obvious that immigrants, illegal or legal, present no real threat to the well-being of these people, it also becomes obvious what the true nature of the anti-immigrant is.
But, there are people with valid objections to immigration, and, no matter what underlying pathology may motivate other anti-immigrants, we can appreciate the logic of stating that "the laws are the laws." In any event, I, for one, would be the happiest person in the world if all us stupid Mexicans could come back here where we came from and lead decent lives. But, I don't really discriminate that much. I would equally welcome the return of intelligent Mexicans who could help educate us stupid Mexicans.
So, Pitillanquies, I'm not really all that out of place among the anti-immigrant leagues.
At least there are participants on this forum who are bright enough to figure out that hiring undocumented residents is not really the best way to drive them out of the country. That's a step up from some other groups.
I try to stay calm and honest and thoughtful while here. But it would be nice if some of my opponents had better reading-comprehension skills and a bit more knowledge of the people and nation that they find so upsetting. So far, while knowing that I live in Ciudad Juarez, not one person has seriously addressed the issue of the militarization of Mexico or the military occupation of my city. Most seem oblivious to the drug-and-firearm exchanges going on between the criminals of both nations. Most seem oblivious to the fact that there has been greater loss of human life in the State of Chihuahua over the last two years than losses of life in Afghanistan.
Maybe they're just being nice by not bringing up topics that might make me feel bad. Actually, what makes me feel bad is that the firearms and ammunition used to kill my friends, family, neighbors and loved ones were provided by (fill in the blanks). But, no sense in getting into all that sloppy sentimentality.
Moderator cut: orphaned
FYI, there are plenty of Mexican-Americans in this country who say we white people need to go back to Europe because we stole the southwest from Mexico and call us illegals in our own country. They like the idea of all these illegals coming up from Mexico to help with the reconquista. They are literally salivating over a Latino majority in this country one day. Hispanics are already the majority in 22 countries on the Western Hemisphere but I guess that isn't enough for them. We are called racists for not going along with the illegal invasion by their ethnic kind. Walk a mile in our shoes and maybe you will understand this issue more and why we anti's feel the way that we do.
As for illegal immigration in general we are a nation of laws and there are many reasons why we have quotas on legal immigration. It isn't fair to other ethnic groups of potential legal immigrants for Mexicans or other Latinos to just jump our borders and take their place in line. Legal immigration is also based on controlled numbers and our ability to provide them with jobs and all the other things it takes to support a population. Legal immigrants get health and background checks. When one jumps our border they get neither and that is a viable threat to the welfare of our own citizens. We must secure our borders and remove any incentives for illegal aliens to want to come here but there are unfortunately too many corrupt politicians and employers who don't give a hoot about American citizens, thus our frustrations on this issue.
This would be the logical thing to do, wouldn't it?
America is a slow nation where many put their pocketbooks and quarterly figures before their own citizens and citizenship. They're catching on a little bit finally. But I do find hysterical is when some Americans like to exclaim to their illegal immigrants: "WHY DID YOU MAKE ME HIRE YOU? YOU MADE ME HIRE YOU! YOU JUST HAAADD TO WORK FOR SO CHEAP AND THEN FORCE ME TO HIRE YOU!"
There's a great deal of truth in this....and I've touched on it many times before. However, if I had to make a rebuttal to your above post, it would be this:
GRANTED, that there's much nastiness and racism on this forum...(MORE than there is in the general public, IMHO)...
GRANTED, that many 'mean' and insensitive things are said about the subject of illegal immigration, not all of them any too intelligent.
STILL, at the 'end of the day', illegal immigration is illegal. People have a right to object to illegal behavior. While it's certainly true that 'greedy employers' have 'lured' illegals here, with the purpose in mind of exploiting their 'neediness', their poverty, and their desire to work, being "lured" into crime has seldom been seen as any sort of a legitimate excuse, up until the most recent times. I can think of FEW petty criminals who didn't start off as 'poor'...whether in actual fact, or simply because they envied others...who couldn't have claimed that they were "lured"...or "enticed"..into breaking the law. Sorry, but that just isn't an excuse. If it were, there'd be no pickpockets...no thieves...no burglars...no violent gang-bangers...and no shoplifters...since virtually ALL these people were "induced" into breaking the law.
If you want to suggest we ought to "come down" on the employers of illegals..I agree. WE should. But these folks are usually well-connected, clever, and oftentimes, aren't even "people"..they're faceless organizations. No employer's going to 'go public', and DEMAND he be 'allowed to hire illegals'. These people remain largely hidden from the public; they keep quiet and operate "below the radar".
Illegals USED to do the same; and they got little notice, too. Today, with all sorts of public "demands" and lots of publicity, illegals are now "in the spotlight". The result is LOTS of publicity, and the resultant negative attention. You "challenge" the public, and normally they're going to respond. (This 'challenge', of course, is exacerbated by the EXPLOSIVE increase in the illegals' numbers in recent years).
Want to start a "greedy employers" forum? I'm sure it would get lots of attention...but so far, employers are so 'little noticed' that public anger against them hasn't reached 'critical mass'. Not so in the case of the illegals themselves...MOSTLY due to their own efforts, they're now "front-and-center" in the attention of the American public...and the results are obvious to any reader of this forum.
It didn't HAVE to be this way...formerly, as I can attest to myself, it WASN'T this way. Illegals used to be little noticed, and well-accepted. That is no longer true. WHY? Probably a hundred reasons....but saying "I broke the law because you 'lured' me into it"....or "I'm here because you FAILED to make sure I stayed OUT"....are just not rational excuses for breaking the law...whether you're a petty pickpocket, a trespasser on the property of others, a 'borrower' of bicycles without the owners' permission....or one who 'sneaks' into a country 'on the sly'. You KNOW when you're breaking the law.....that's why there's a whole 'industry' that helps you stay hidden. People who REALLY don't realize they're doing 'wrong', make no effort to hide their actions. That fits the description of VERY few petty criminals, of ANY description.
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
39,031 posts, read 23,020,628 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeache
What I find really hypocritical about some of these unenlightened people obssessed with illegal immigration is the fact that many of them are "devout Christians". Regardless of the situation, the Bible clearly states that "all are equal in dignity before God". Also, from a Christian/religious perspective, the whole concept of a human being being "illegal" is absurd. I wonder if Jesus treated people differently based on their "immigration status". Anyways, it amazing how hypocritical and unenlightened some of these "devout Christians" can be.
If a human being breaks the immigration laws by illegally immigrating then yes, they are illegal immigrants. The Bible calls us to obey the laws of the land unless they violate His Word. Not only do illegal immigrants break immigration laws, many of them break other laws such as identity theft in order to survive in their illegal status. Although I feel for these folks, I cannot justify their actions especially if they refuse to right the situation.
Yo OUR immigration laws were made for a reason. One reason was to keep one ethnic group from coming in like locust and not leting others have their turn,,,You see the hispanic group has now reached about 100 times over their limit and they need to go back and wait their turn...I find it almost funny that MOST mexicans want to spend their time trying to debate the US laws and spend NO TIME debating the Mexico laws..Thats why we dont worry about what they say....Illegals and other aliens have no right to even talk about the laws here,you see its none of their business.LOL
Yo OUR immigration laws were made for a reason. One reason was to keep one ethnic group from coming in like locust and not leting others have their turn,,,You see the hispanic group has now reached about 100 times over their limit and they need to go back and wait their turn...I find it almost funny that MOST mexicans want to spend their time trying to debate the US laws and spend NO TIME debating the Mexico laws..Thats why we dont worry about what they say....Illegals and other aliens have no right to even talk about the laws here,you see its none of their business.LOL
Actually it is mostly their ethnocentric citizen counterparts that are debating/objecting to our immigration laws because they want as many of their kind in this country as possible so they can become the majority and gain political and numerical control. They have a tribal mentality.
What I find really hypocritical about some of these unenlightened people obssessed with illegal immigration is the fact that many of them are "devout Christians". Regardless of the situation, the Bible clearly states that "all are equal in dignity before God". Also, from a Christian/religious perspective, the whole concept of a human being being "illegal" is absurd. I wonder if Jesus treated people differently based on their "immigration status". Anyways, it amazing how hypocritical and unenlightened some of these "devout Christians" can be.
If I recall, Jesus said - Give unto Cesar which is Cesar's, and unto God which is God's (or some similar wording).
So, he was saying "Obey the laws"...And, we have laws governing immigration.
There is nothing hypocritical about it.
What is hypocritical are the Hispanic and liberal organizations crying that amnesty is the humane thing to do, while the truth is they are simply conniving for more political power.
They are selling-out the integrity and "sovereignty" of this country for their own self-serving, political power.
This is hurting the integrity of the entire Hispanic community here. It is dividing this country.
If I recall, Jesus said - Give unto Cesar which is Cesar's, and unto God which is God's (or some similar wording).
So, he was saying "Obey the laws"...And, we have laws governing immigration.
There is nothing hypocritical about it.
What is hypocritical are the Hispanic and liberal organizations crying that amnesty is the humane thing to do, while the truth is they are simply conniving for more political power.
They are selling-out the integrity and "sovereignty" of this country for their own self-serving, political power.
This is hurting the integrity of the entire Hispanic community here. It is dividing this country.
This so called path to citizenship won't go nearly as well as many think it well.
They won't learn English, they won't pay a fine, they won't be able to prove they have been working and paying taxes. That pares it down to probably a couple of hundred thousand out of 20-30 million.
macmeal: Is it possible we have something in common? Have you worked in law enforcement or in some facet of the justice system? I once worked on the fringes of the justice system in the US, and you and I seem to seem to share some points of view. I keep trying to give positive ratings to your posts, but this strange system on the forum won't let me indicate that I appreciate your posts UNLESS I also rate positively the posts of people who simply don't warrant a positive rating.
Regarding your comment:
'"It didn't HAVE to be this way...formerly, as I can attest to myself, it WASN'T this way. Illegals used to be little noticed, and well-accepted. That is no longer true. WHY? Probably a hundred reasons....but saying "I broke the law because you 'lured' me into it"....or "I'm here because you FAILED to make sure I stayed OUT"....are just not rational excuses for breaking the law...whether you're a petty pickpocket, a trespasser on the property of others, a 'borrower' of bicycles without the owners' permission....or one who 'sneaks' into a country 'on the sly'. You KNOW when you're breaking the law.....that's why there's a whole 'industry' that helps you stay hidden. People who REALLY don't realize they're doing 'wrong', make no effort to hide their actions. That fits the description of VERY few petty criminals, of ANY description. "
I know a little bit about the behavior of petty criminals, too. And I have worked in Juvy Halls and Probation Departments. The difference I see between the typical undocumented worker and the home-grown US petty criminal is that the garden variety home-grown is rarely "lured" - except by peer pressure - and practically never "driven by need" to break the law. There are, of course, some exceptions. But they are rare. The owners of convenience markets don't put the word on the street of "Hey, kid, come and rob my store and I'll make it worth your while." Employers of undocumented workers DO put such information on the streets. Also, although many residents of Juvy Hall may not come from the wealthiest families, there illegal actions are nearly never motivated by a need for food and housing. So the undocumented worker is responding to two primal forces: being "driven" by true basic needs, and being "lured" by either direct word or condoned past practice.
But, we remain in agreement that the law is the law. Whether or not the undocumented worker is driven by needs and lured by direct or implied promises that the needs will be fulfilled, neither motive justifies breaking the law. And we still agree that the solutions to satisfying the basic needs of undocumented workers should not be sought in the realm of breaking or circumventing the laws of the US, but in bringing pressures to bear on the political and economic leaders of nations where the needs of citizens are not being met, and their governments also encourage, directly or indirectly, that their citizens satisfy their needs by breaking the laws of the US.
We may not have exactly the same resons or sentiments, but I think we are on the same page about making the wealthy and powerful of Mexico focus their thinking and resources on decently accommodating their own citizens. Frankly, macmeal, I'm frightened by the way things are going. The current global economic collapse is now giving the Mexican powers that be some valid excuses for letting their people suffer conditions that are further deteriorating. I've been going out with my grandkids on their job searches in Juarez, and, let me tell you, it's far worse than just "slim pickins." Thank God we are not among those who go without food, but I don't know what the future holds for these youngsters. I'm sorry to disagree with you, but I see it as a very different matter when a hungry person turns to criminal acts. By no means am I suggesting that to my grand-kids, but they have never missed a meal in their lives (and Chuy could stand to lose a few meals with the size of the pot gut he's developing.) Chuy had established a small business making custom futbol (soccer) and other athletic uniforms, but people don't do much shopping in a town where they have to squeeze through groups of mean-looking armed soldiers. And the attendance at futbol games drops a little when the fans feel they need to attend the game wearing bullet proof vests. So, Chuy's business, along with countless others, failed. Juan Pablo (we'll call him Juan Pablo the Third), Chuy's brother, lost his job in Chihuahua where he had been doing quite well. Juan Pablo didn't fail, but the business did, so he has joined his brother in the ranks of the unemployed.
I was going to post some information here containing predictions of Mexico's economic future over the next couple of years, but I don't think most participants would read it or get it.
Anyway, you'll get no quarrel from me about laws being laws, nor will we get in any fistfights over what country should be accommodating Mexican people. But I still see a bit of truth in my perception that the Mexican is truly more "driven" and "lured" to break the law than is his typical American counterpart. But, if either you or I felt driven or lured to break some skulls of some forum participants, we would still recognize that there are laws prohibiting that kind of behavior, and we would abide by them.
Would it stand up in court if I said "Hey, judge, Forum-Participant X lured me to break his skull, and I felt driven to do it?" If the forum participant recovered and all went well, I suppose I might get more severe charges reduced to "aggravated assault." But, you're absolutely right: Just feeling some need to violate a law does not invalidate the law. From time to time, I feel a need for several hundred thousand dollars, but that doesn't make it legal for me to arm myself, form a gang, and enter the bank's vault.
Well, I really hope the best for everybody involved, no matter if they are for or against all us stupid Mexicans, but the future is looking very grim, and I don't see much hope for things to go well for any of us for quite some time. As things get worse, I hope we can all resolve to keep our heads and, to the best of our abilities, recognize our common humanity, no matter what differences may seem to separate us.
That sounds maudlin and sentimental and like the stuff of Hallmark Cards, but I've seen the options, and, believe me, they are very ugly. Participants on these forums don't seem to know much about where I live, but when you get up every day to see if you've lost another person in your life, it can kinda make you wish that the warmth and sentimentality of greeting cards had some bearing in reality and some taming effect on people driven or ordered to do harm to other people.
And, no need for anybody to be concerned about my skull-busting moods. At my age and condition, I can barely get the cap off my bottle of Scotch. I'm not really fond of tequila, but I mention it from time to time just to live up to a stereotype. But I sure could use a few shots of good Scotch.
macmeal: Is it possible we have something in common? Have you worked in law enforcement or in some facet of the justice system? I once worked on the fringes of the justice system in the US, and you and I seem to seem to share some points of view. I keep trying to give positive ratings to your posts, but this strange system on the forum won't let me indicate that I appreciate your posts UNLESS I also rate positively the posts of people who simply don't warrant a positive rating.
Regarding your comment:
.
Firstly, thanks for the kind words. Kind words can be few and far between on the forum. I've seen you on occasion 'casting about' for feedback....and it's not that your lucid, thoughtful posts aren't valued...it's just that most of the time, they're so extensive, so well-presented, and so comprehensive, that there's little room for rebuttal...since most of what you say is pretty well incontrovertible. Like you, I've wanted to "rep" you, but as you say, "reps" are limited....and you can't always 'rep' those who deserve it.
No, in answer to your question...I have ZERO experience in law enforcement. Other than a few visits from the 'cops' returning misbehaving grandsons to my custody, no, I have none. I HAVE known a few law-enforcement types, (my wife has a first cousin who was a career detective)...some of them are 'pleasant enough' types, others seem to be 'cops' in their off-hours, too. But I've never been 'close' to the law-enforcement world, except to recognize that it is USUALLY a vast improvement over the alternative. My normal sentiment is to give cops the 'benefit of the doubt', unless otherwise indicated.
MOST of my considerable "ranting" on this subject comes from nothing more than a lifetime of experience. Married 40 years next month into a 'native California' (Indian) family, (MOST Southern Cal. Indians speak Spanish...have Spanish surnames...and in the formerly 'stratified' social order of California, were at various times, described as 'Mexicans', by those who didn't know any better)....I've known, worked with, socialized with, helped, and been helped by, illegals for many years. I even have a few of them...(OR their descendants) in my own family; and in my wife's.
GENERALLY, as I've said, illegals in California were well-tolerated, cheerful, hard-working, honest, resourceful, and very hard to 'dislike'...and when not 'liked' they were at least grudgingly respected. They actually DID fill a niche here, and were happy to be "here" and not back "there". They made it pretty plain that their loyalty lay with the US...very few displayed Mexican flags, etc.
Perhaps my problem (in my old age) is that today, I don't personally "know" many illegals. Most of the ones I knew are now settled in, have children and grandkids, and are pretty much 'old-timers' here. What I "know" about the NEW group (current illegals), I mostly pick up from the 'word on the street' like everyone else. And the 'newbies', with their sheer audacity, their bold 'demands', their sense of entitlement, and their outspoken loyalty to Mexico....PLUS the plain fact of their huge numbers.(AND their new-found willingness and ability to use a vast array of social services)..creates a situation VERY different from that which prevailed just 30 or 40 years ago. It's entirely different in 'scope', as well as in magnitude. PLUS the numbers of illegals have EXPLODED at precisely the time when any believable need for unskilled labor in the US has DIMINISHED at a breathtaking rate. It creates an 'explosive' combination of mostly negative factors to form a pretty tough situation on the whole.
Is this an accurate perception? Possibly...but then again, as I said, I'm only speaking from the standpoint of personal observation. My view, in the end, is only a 'view'.
As far as the 'racism' on the forum..that certainly exists. Racism will ALWAYS be injected into any controversy where 'race' is present...and this one certainly fits. I have a theory which I'll run by you to explain SOME of the anger on this forum....see if you agree:
While 'Mexicans' are certainly a well-known part of the history and culture of the Southwest, (after all, they STARTED the place), that is NOT the case for most of the US. There, 'Mexicans' are just as unknown and 'different' as any other nationality. Now, if you also consider the fact that many of the less 'sophisticated' parts of the US...(that is, the rural South and parts of the 'heartland') are precisely where most of our new 'illegal labor' is being used (slaughter houses, row crops, chicken packing plants), it's easier to understand the 'clash'.
Many of these more remote parts of the US have had very little experience with ANY newcomers for several generations. Only 15 years ago, MANY MANY counties in the rural South were 96 or 97% American-born. Almost NO immigrant moved to such places, and the only people 'different' these folks saw were 'blacks or whites'...(and THOSE two demographics had their 'frictions', as I'm sure you know). Wages...as well as educational levels...were relatively low, by US standards.
Now, suddenly, these low-wage places in the US, where few new immigrants ever went, which tended to be quite socially conservative.(maybe even a bit xenophobic), suddenly find themselves swamped by HUGE numbers of very 'different' people...and to add 'fuel' to the fire, a good number of these 'new arrivals', are, in fact, not even here LEGALLY. It's pretty easy to see the makings of a controversy, given the above.
Whether this explains some of the nasty comments on the forum, I don't now..it's just always been a theory of mine. Of course, I'm sure there are a dozen other factors that play into it.
Got to run now, busy day. I enjoy your lucid posts; am concerned for our future generations (yours, mine, and everyone's), and in truth, cannot imagine what's in store for our society(ies), 20 or 30 years from now. Things will obviously be different...probably in ways we can't even imagine at present.
Keep up your posts....I read every one.
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Well read what Jesus said about immigration...
), that is NOT the case for most of the US. There, 'Mexicans' are just as unknown and 'different' as any other nationality. Now, if you also consider the fact that many of the less 'sophisticated' parts of the US...(that is, the rural South and parts of the 'heartland') are precisely where most of our new 'illegal labor' is being used (slaughter houses, row crops, chicken packing plants), it's easier to understand the 'clash'.
