U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 08-31-2014, 04:15 PM
 
300 posts, read 387,428 times
Reputation: 312

Advertisements

I think in the long run it would be cheaper for our government to give a monetary award to Americans who report those who they think might be illegal. I also think that anyone caught employing illegals or renting to them should be transported to Mexico and not allowed back in legally, have their American citizenship taken away. Also, the government should take all their assets. If we are to save our country we need to take drastic steps.

 
Old 08-31-2014, 05:27 PM
 
Location: East Coast
673 posts, read 555,274 times
Reputation: 642
Default OMgosh

Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
Jess5, I'm not the angry one here. I'm not the one that spends everyday on the illegal immigration forum ranting and raving about Hispanics, having to vent and blow off steam on a daily basis like the same handful of members do on here. That's also a curious thing you're implying there, what makes you think I'm an illegal, or Mexican, for that matter?

I see a lot of ranting and raving on this topic, nobody really addressed the second post I made in here. Lots of emotion, no facts. Well, that's par for the course on this subforum, isn't? Nobody wants to address how much illegals cost in welfare versus poor whites and blacks. By the way, I'd also like to point out that illegals don't qualify for welfare, only US citizens and permanent residents do. Also, let's see how much of the budget goes to welfare, versus how much we have to pay to give senior citizens their subsidized medical care every year, how much the military-industrial complex figures into our budget, etc.

Also, no country in the world, as far as I know, requires citizenship status in order to get medical treatment. Since we do not have socialized medicine in this country like the UK does (one poster erroneously referred to the UK has single payer, the UK does not have single payer medicine), but all private, then legal status does not matter. Also, thanks to almighty Reagan, that great conservative stalwart of the GOP, is the one that signed into law that NOBODY can be turned away from the ER. Blame your hero, Ronald Reagan, for that.
You are absolutely incorrect - this HAS been discussed at length, with links, sources, numbers, data, and first-hand observation, especially regarding the monies spent on illegals vs. legal citizens. Again, go search the illegal forums. Especially since May of this year. ( Also, you haven't provided support or links to your assertions...kindly provide.)

Your statement "no country in the world, as far as I know, requires citizenship status in order to get medical treatment" is only partially correct. The UK DOES ask about citizenship status - those residents that do not fall under their guidelines DO have to pay for their NHS medical services. I won't spend my time looking up other countries for you.

The statement that I've placed in bold is incorrect and nave. Just go to the US Census website to discover exactly how many illegals that we know of, are illegally usurping the assistance funds designated for our OWN citizens.

No...Medicare and military medicine are NOT part of the equation, nor the OP's question, nor the topic.

Here's what Jess5 stated, "The fact that illegals caused a large part of these bills we have to pay only makes it worse."

She's correct, the illegals HAVE made our economic problems in this country worse. From struggling school districts in Texas, to closing or struggling hospitals. It's also impacted those in the medical profession as well, to the point we are now seeing doctors either refusing to accept insurance, Medicaid patients, and even Medicare patients. Many have raised their rates, and just accept patients with a few higher-paying insurance plans; but many have abandoned that altogether, and just accept private pay.

To be honest and fair, sure - there are many complex factors that have amalgamated into the high cost of medical delivery...much of the problem CAN be attributed to the cost of paying for illegals.

My dear late mother worked in the administration of a conglomerate of hospitals in the NE, as well as Texas throughout the 70's- 2000. Even in the 80's and 90's, the hospitals (especially in Texas) had to discover ways of absorbing the high costs of treating illegals and paying for the births, for example of the "anchor babies". If the cases were complicated, the cost would arise to 20K-30K per birth back then. It's much higher now.

No one could be turned away from the ER, including illegals. That's what contributed to the closing of hospitals or ERs, especially in Central Texas, and throughout the rest of the state at that time. Hospitals began to close the ERs, and focus on the more lucrative "rehabilitation" and "wellness" sides of medicine.

Yes, of course, every sector in this country including health care, is overrun by a myriad of so many different things that ratchet up prices. I could write a dissertation on this alone.

In the medical care sector, the "short list" includes (VERY briefly here): low payouts by private medical insurance as well as Medicare/Medicaid, overall higher price of doing business in the US and worldwide, inflation, costs passed on from rising oil prices, materiel goods, construction of materiel goods, patients who don't pay their bills, overcharging for supplies on every level, some inflated salaries of top administrators, insurance costs (to fight lawsuits, etc.), financial mismanagement, and on and on; but Jess5 was discussing the financial situation she's in right now, and is perturbed by what many of us observe first-hand...that for a variety of reasons, illegals somehow have received a "free pass" where the rest of us have invested and worked for so much more.

It's difficult to glean precise numbers or data on their cost of medical care because...guess what? They're illegal aliens. Much of the data that IS out there is simply because recently, hospitals and clinics have been retaining more precise client data, including race, and sometimes, can discover the citizen status of patients.

Much of the data on illegal aliens (especially with regard to individuals or entire households who use Medicaid, SSI/welfare, etc.) used by think tanks or other economic experts who assess the economic burden levied by illegals comes from the US Census Bureau.

That data is easy to access online. You will have to look up extensive studies by a variety of think tanks, and economic experts (or, as I said, look up the links in recent threads and posts on the subject.)

Now, hold on to your hat...because you will learn for example, that during their lifetime, illegals will cost the US well over 9+ trillion dollars...$6++ trillion, if they somehow would pay their taxes...but I won't hold my breath.

So, caring for illegal aliens, as well as amnesty for current illegals, have, and will continue to pose enormous fiscal costs for us taxpayers. This includes direct benefits (SS, unemployment, Medicare, workman's comp, etc.), "means tested" welfare benefits (such as SSI, medical care, food stamps, housing bennies, etc.), education (now, well over $12,000 per student...could be approaching an additional 80K+++ if you include free college tuition), as well as population-based services (police, firemen, etc.) and costs involving the upkeep of our infrastructure.



Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
Alright, let's see the data. You need to back up your claim that illegals are the exact reason why our healthcare costs are high, not administrative costs, corruption in the medical system, hospital monopolies, outrageous doctor's and manager's salaries, not our healthcare system having to absorb the myriad of unpaid claims needed by Americans who were not eligible for Medicaid, Medicare, and don't have job based insurance and can't afford the private market. No, it's all the illegals' fault.

The reason why Dems instituted Obamacare was because of the GOP opposition. The only Democrats that wanted to institute single payer or a publicly funded health plan on the exchanges were from reliable Democrat districts. The Blue Dog Democrats that voted for Obamacare got voted out anyway. They should have voted on the public option, or voted on Dennis Kucinich's bill for Medicare for All, and been voted out anyway. Either way, they weren't gonna survive, and thought they could if they went with the Heritage Foundation's plan
Sources? Links?

My own experience with, and opinion about "socialized medicine" and specifically, the NHS, parallels that of the Health Editor of the Guardian (newspaper in the UK):

Why the NHS is bad for us | Politics | The Observer


He brilliantly describes it here:

"The very structure of the NHS ensures that we will never spend enough on health in this country, and it will ensure that far too many patients get appalling treatment. The NHS is the last of the communist-style command-economy state organisations, the largest employer in the free world, paid for by a cheque from the Chancellor, managed by a central government ministry, dictating everything from what drugs to prescribe to what meals to serve, through the daily issuing of thousands of targets and initiatives that are baffling even to those who are supposed to carry them out. The failure of the politically controlled, state-funded NHS is sadly as inevitable as the failure of the politically controlled communist economies."

THIS is also why we shouldn't provide "free" treatment to the illegal aliens. Costs will continue to rise, which will be fodder for libs to push for "O"-care or other forms of forced, socialized medicine.

Huge mistake, as both will bankrupt our country. I'm personally observing more and more cases like that of Jess5. It will only continue to get worse - and watching illegals get a LARGE slice of the pie that WE all worked for, is a HUGE insult...and, by the way, ILLEGAL!!!

thank you,
Dandiday
 
Old 08-31-2014, 06:08 PM
 
Location: US
3,083 posts, read 3,352,879 times
Reputation: 1630
Really informative message, Dandiday. I couldn't rep you, but thank you for putting so much time to share the information. I was just going to post a little link from Park Memorial Hospital in Dallas that shows that 70% of children born in their hospital belong to illegal immigrants, but your message is much more informative. Thanks.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DandiDay View Post
You are absolutely incorrect - this HAS been discussed at length, with links, sources, numbers, data, and first-hand observation, especially regarding the monies spent on illegals vs. legal citizens. Again, go search the illegal forums. Especially since May of this year. ( Also, you haven't provided support or links to your assertions...kindly provide.)


thank you,
Dandiday
 
Old 08-31-2014, 07:20 PM
 
32,009 posts, read 14,777,184 times
Reputation: 8549
No one sits on this on this forum day in and day out ranting about Hispanics. This forum is about illegal aliens, Hispanic or not. It just so happens that most here illegally are of the Hispanic persuasion. If anyone is dealing in emotion it is their defenders.

Why should there be a comparison of welfare usage of illegals vs Americans, black or white? Citizens are entitled to help if they need it just because they ARE citizens of this country and rightly so!

Our government enacted Medicare for our seniors and to demonize them or our military personnel for using taxes since they are OUR citizens is despicable. Making a comparison of their tax usage (of which they contribute) to them and illegal alien lawbreakers is beyond belief.

No one objects to anyone getting "emergency" treatment but illegal aliens use our ER's as medical clinics and pay nothing.

And finally, illegal aliens get welfare through their children born on our soil and there is evidence that some get it through fraud also. If they weren't here illegally this wouldn't be happening either.
 
Old 08-31-2014, 08:50 PM
 
3,936 posts, read 5,463,947 times
Reputation: 4156
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
Jess5, I'm not the angry one here. I'm not the one that spends everyday on the illegal immigration forum ranting and raving about Hispanics, having to vent and blow off steam on a daily basis like the same handful of members do on here. That's also a curious thing you're implying there, what makes you think I'm an illegal, or Mexican, for that matter?

I see a lot of ranting and raving on this topic, nobody really addressed the second post I made in here. Lots of emotion, no facts. Well, that's par for the course on this subforum, isn't? Nobody wants to address how much illegals cost in welfare versus poor whites and blacks. By the way, I'd also like to point out that illegals don't qualify for welfare, only US citizens and permanent residents do. Also, let's see how much of the budget goes to welfare, versus how much we have to pay to give senior citizens their subsidized medical care every year, how much the military-industrial complex figures into our budget, etc.

Also, no country in the world, as far as I know, requires citizenship status in order to get medical treatment. Since we do not have socialized medicine in this country like the UK does (one poster erroneously referred to the UK has single payer, the UK does not have single payer medicine), but all private, then legal status does not matter. Also, thanks to almighty Reagan, that great conservative stalwart of the GOP, is the one that signed into law that NOBODY can be turned away from the ER. Blame your hero, Ronald Reagan, for that.
You're twisting our words. No one rants and raves about Hispanics. It's about illegal alien criminals. Illegals don't qualify for welfare?! I worked with helping these people back in my younger and nave days. I know what they get, and they get welfare! They get assistance with utilities, food stamps, free cell phones, which a lot of them complain about, because they want the newest, flashiest ones, birthing their many children is 100% paid for. Pre Natal, Post Natal, 100% care for the babies they have.

I cannot believe you compared America's senior citizens & poor, (why did you put black & white, it doesn't matter) to illegal criminals! Our poor should be helped. With just a few twists and turns, we could all be in that situation. It's much harder for citizens to get it than illegals. Old Glory explained it perfectly in his post.

Again,
"Who is picking up these costs? Every American taxpayer — not to mention medical facilities and insurance companies who turn around and raise their rates for everyone else."

Did you not read this part of my original post?
"The fact that illegals caused a large part of these bills we have to pay only makes it worse."

"buying another vehicle after an illegal ran into (and ran,)and totaled my husbands vehicle. We'll be paying on these hospital bills for the rest of our lives."

That's what I meant when I said illegals caused a large part of these bills! He had borrowed the money to pay the car off, so he thought he'd be OK since everyone has to have auto insurance, right? So he dropped the uninsured motorist insurance. So, we're also still making monthly payments for the totaled vehicle, because apparently illegals don't have to have auto insurance! As well as the hospital bills for his treatment from said accident. But the others made a very good point that they indeed do make our hospital bills higher by going to the ER for some for some of the silliest reasons. I know what I'm talking about because I worked at a hospital and saw it constantly.
 
Old 08-31-2014, 09:40 PM
 
10,026 posts, read 8,901,419 times
Reputation: 5888
For those who keep insisting illegals get no welfare. Moms & Babies Programs for Pregnant Women

You do not have to be a citizen or a legal immigrant to get MPE.
You do not have to have a Social Security number to get MPE.


Translation? You CAN be illegal. Read the website, it makes it known that yes even illegal kids (that is kids born in other countries)will get welfare as will their parents. Oh and because Illinois is such a kid loving (translation: illegal and illegitimate kids)state we also offer free health insurance to their parents too. However childless people can die, even if they are working but not making enough.

With lower incomes, illegals rely more on welfare programs. CIS says in Texas, "58 percent of illegal households collect some sort of welfare," with "49 percent using food assistance and 41 percent using Medicaid." In California and Illinois, reports CIS, "55 percent use welfare."

California, which has the largest number of illegal aliens, predictably has the greatest burden. In Los Angeles County alone, according to a CBS Los Angeles report, welfare and other benefits by the end of last year cost an estimated $650 million just for the native-born children of illegal immigrant parents. L.A. County Supervisor Michael D. Antonovich told CBS Los Angeles: "When you add the $550 million for public safety and nearly $500 million for health care, the total cost for illegal immigrants to county taxpayers exceeds $1.6 billion a year."

Retreating on illegal immigration - Chicago Tribune


In many articles I have seen a majority of those on assistance in Illinois are illegals. It's bad enough to support Americans who are lazy but having to support idiots who don't even BELONG here is insane.
 
Old 09-01-2014, 12:34 AM
 
Location: Purgatory
6,317 posts, read 4,479,341 times
Reputation: 9738
I think this is nothing new. There is a law dating back to the 80's that General ERs must treat every patient regardless of ability to pay.

I think most civilized first world countries have such systems.

I think the OP should have bought better health care insurance and I'm sorry she did not.
 
Old 09-01-2014, 12:46 AM
 
Location: Purgatory
6,317 posts, read 4,479,341 times
Reputation: 9738
I also think that all of those people against purchasing healthcare and against the ACA are strongly advised to hear the OP dilemma. Regardless of immigration, no one wants a debt collection agency coming after them.

I think the OPs post has nothing to do w immigration but the OP is upset and needs someone to take it out on.

I think when someone is just venting, they should state as such and not shift blame.

I think the OP needs to become familiar with her rights under the debt collection laws. Just because a collector WANT more than you can pay per month, does not mean you are legally obligated to comply.

Debt Collection Laws: How to Deal with Collection Agencies

I think the OP has a lot of people's empathy, including my own, but now that she has the above link and info, i hope her anxiety and anger will lessen.
 
Old 09-01-2014, 01:55 AM
 
11,622 posts, read 5,587,423 times
Reputation: 9936
I think the OPs post has nothing to do w immigration but the OP is upset and needs someone to take it out on.
--------------
First of all, the topic is ILLEGAL immigration, not LEGAL immigration. Illegal aliens have no business being let alone leeching off our health care system.

It's grossly unfair as well as despicable that illegal aliens get free medical care, no questions asked and it is the taxpayer who ends up picking up the tab. Meanwhile, American citizens are expected to pay for all of their medical care.

I suggest that you read some of the other posts in this thread. They explain just how illegal immigration is a burden to our health care system.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top