Indianapolis loses 86,000 residents to suburbs in past decade

[missik999]

Originally Posted by maybemover96b

Missik999,

Unless, I'm missing something, I don't see where you cite the name of the study or provide the link to it.
Could you please do that if you get a chance. Thanks much.

I wasn't sure if I was allowed to post a link here, some of the forums don't allow it. Here it is:

Indianapolis losing residents, wealth to the suburbs | Indianapolis Star | indystar.com

There were several articles about this study, the link I posted was from the Star.

[maybemover96b]

Oh, I didn't even know about no link posting. Not a regular forum guy. Thanks for the link.

[BU191433]

Originally Posted by Broadrippleguy

Yes but were starting to see changes in IPS.
So i think we shouldnt see drastic numbers like this in 2020 cause obiviously it takes time for IPS to become a better school with the reforms going on.

Assuming what you are suggesting comes to pass, then the township schools will be worse than IPS perhaps in 20 years.

[Broadrippleguy]

Originally Posted by BU191433

Assuming what you are suggesting comes to pass, then the township schools will be worse than IPS perhaps in 20 years.

IPS cant remain down forever.
Remember this is Indy not Detroit.
Indy has an advantage though that people are willing to make the sacrifices and changes needed to better IPS.
just gotta give it time

[Southside Shrek]

I know where one house is near Raymond Street off I-65 for about $5K. It is a fixer upper for sure. Anyone interested? However, be prepared for some periodic gunfire after dark. There is also a Pit Bull next door that jumped on me but I like dogs and didn't mind.

I have some pics of the house. It is a handyman's special and not for the faint at heart. If you use it as a rental you could have problems collecting rent and would have to stay on top of the tenant.

[grmasterb]

Originally Posted by Broadrippleguy

IPS cant remain down forever.

Why not?

[A2DAC1985]

Originally Posted by grmasterb

Why not?

Exactly.

If people "care" about their children and their education and only move to the suburbs of Indianapolis, guess what? ONLY PEOPLE WHO DON'T REALLY CARE ABOUT THEIR KID(S) AND THEIR AND THEIR EDUCATION are left in the city.

Moving to the suburbs strictly for the reason of "better schools" is an indication that those people want a lesser hand in their children's education. It somehow absolves them of 7-8 hours of their kid's life every five contiguous days.

Why?

Because people think money should buy them EVERYTHING. Granted it can buy a lot of things, but there are still quite a few things that actually require work, and the payoff for those things may not be evident now, 5 years from now, a decade from now, or even a lifetime from now, but they do payoff.

As long as people use money as a way to take the easy way out of other areas that they DON'T spend their money on, services will suffer.

Imagine if people from Zionsville choose to stay inside the city, rather than "get away from it all", and were active parents with IPS. S---------- would get done. Those parents would actually attend school board meetings and PTA conferences. Those people would have a voice that would actually BE HEARD while the parents of students who didn't attend those meetings would bring nothing but silence to the table.

But then again, with the way our country is going, people always seem to expect that dollars speak louder than words. The First Amendment is first for a reason. If people choose to speak their mind, rather than letting dollars talk for them, S----------- could get accomplished. As long as people choose distance and wealth to hide from problems, nothing substantial will ever get accomplished.

Those are my thoughts. And I hope they aren't construed as some sort of attack against the person I quoted.

[msamhunter]

Originally Posted by A2DAC1985

Exactly.

If people "care" about their children and their education and only move to the suburbs of Indianapolis, guess what? ONLY PEOPLE WHO DON'T REALLY CARE ABOUT THEIR KID(S) AND THEIR AND THEIR EDUCATION are left in the city.

Moving to the suburbs strictly for the reason of "better schools" is an indication that those people want a lesser hand in their children's education. It somehow absolves them of 7-8 hours of their kid's life every five contiguous days.

Why?

Because people think money should buy them EVERYTHING. Granted it can buy a lot of things, but there are still quite a few things that actually require work, and the payoff for those things may not be evident now, 5 years from now, a decade from now, or even a lifetime from now, but they do payoff.

As long as people use money as a way to take the easy way out of other areas that they DON'T spend their money on, services will suffer.

Imagine if people from Zionsville choose to stay inside the city, rather than "get away from it all", and were active parents with IPS. S---------- would get done. Those parents would actually attend school board meetings and PTA conferences. Those people would have a voice that would actually BE HEARD while the parents of students who didn't attend those meetings would bring nothing but silence to the table.

But then again, with the way our country is going, people always seem to expect that dollars speak louder than words. The First Amendment is first for a reason. If people choose to speak their mind, rather than letting dollars talk for them, S----------- could get accomplished. As long as people choose distance and wealth to hide from problems, nothing substantial will ever get accomplished.

Those are my thoughts. And I hope they aren't construed as some sort of attack against the person I quoted.

Good points and bad points. While I agree, if parents stayed in said urban schools, things would be better, not utopia but definitely better. Then again, at that point you are infringing upon societal relationships and perceptions thereof on all sides of the argument. Urban schools have a lot of problems and a lot of those problems aren't school related such as hunger, crime, educational attainment by the parents of students, jobs. Problems traditional suburban schools normally do not have to deal with or deal with to the extent of an IPS or GPSC.

It's easy to say the parents do not care in urban districts which is why they are so bad, but truth be told, there are a LOT of parents who care, are at every PTA meeting, volunteer in classrooms etc. It's easy to say the teachers are just there for a paycheck and that's it. But again, put the best Carmel teacher in the worst IPS school, what would be the likelihood that Carmel teacher end up with similar results of his/her Carmel classroom and vice versa for the IPS teacher going into Carmel?

It's easy to say money will fix the problem, look at your Zionsville reference. I think it was Monday's IBJ they did a comparison between cash strapped wealthy suburban school district Zionsville and their blue collar cash flush school district Lebanon. You do not always have to throw money at the situation. Effective education is more about community than money. While there tends to be more money for people over the past 25-30 years, there's also less community to where, you don't know your neighbors, god forbid you chastise a child that's not yours for doing something wrong (since everyone's kids tend to be angels these days). When I was growing up, we knew everybody within about a 4 block radius and that's kids and parents and people who didn't even have kids and people looked out, made sure kids didn't get into too much trouble (they are kids) and helped each other out daily. Now, we have our natural disasters and WTHR throws a telethon, we donate money and then pat ourselves on the back saying look what we did. All while the normal day to day of helping each other out has gone out the window. Money wasn't the issue. When we had trouble with homework and my mom couldn't answer it, we went to a neighbor who was more versed in the subject. My dad was an Accountant so kids would ask him math questions all the time because he was well more versed than other people. In the end, there was always someone there to help, today, no one to help or if they do help it's for a "tutoring" fee and god forbid $100 an hour Sylvan min. of 36 hours. Get back to community, esp. in the urban areas, you would I bet see a drastic change in output from the students.

[sunnyandcloudydays]

The report is an estimate.

It has only been a few years since an official count and its way too early to determine any concrete factors.

Keep in mind to the nation has just endudred a national crisis.
The foreclosure rates all across this nation are still extreme.

Foreclosures were typically higher in minority and inner city neighborhoods.

If this is where the population is shedding, then it will not take long to track the problem.

As any American city it stands to reason Indianpolis has strongholds with its popular neighborhoods.

However it is concerning as it appears to be a large percentage of the total population .

It would be helpful if another group tracked the decline as well this way you can have a differnet set of eyes looking into this developing pattern.

[A2DAC1985]

Originally Posted by msamhunter

...Urban schools have a lot of problems and a lot of those problems aren't school related such as hunger, crime, educational attainment by the parents of students, jobs. Problems traditional suburban schools normally do not have to deal with or deal with to the extent of an IPS or GPSC.

...It's easy to say the teachers are just there for a paycheck and that's it. But again, put the best Carmel teacher in the worst IPS school, what would be the likelihood that Carmel teacher end up with similar results of his/her Carmel classroom and vice versa for the IPS teacher going into Carmel?

...In the end, there was always someone there to help, today, no one to help or if they do help it's for a "tutoring" fee and god forbid $100 an hour Sylvan min. of 36 hours. Get back to community, esp. in the urban areas, you would I bet see a drastic change in output from the students.

There are a few things you posted that I want to hit on, but not quoted directly in this reply.

The first quoted part, seems to me, that you are agreeing with what I said. There are problems beyond the school yard. Those problems don't magically disappear once inside the "hallowed" halls of education. Adults are expected to leave their personal problems at home, and leave their work problems at work. I don't think it's a realistic goal to ask kids to do the same.

So then we talk about community, which is beyond the school walls. If the people who do care about community leave for an "easier" life, simply because they have the money to, it does't make the community and school district any stronger. It leaves the weakest links, and the weakest cash flow.

I think we agree on those points, in so many words.

What I really think will change education is a two fold approach, of which I am only going to address one point at this time.

Unions.

Watch "Waiting for Superman" if you haven't already.

Get the unions out of public schools, and I think there would be a "renaissance" of public education. There is no need for unions in the public domain. None. The Constitution is more than enough to protect public workers from any possible injustices, and it provides a road for justice if there are any infractions.

And with that being said I would give a standing ovation to the state of Indiana if they made a law that said any private business employee had the right to join a union. Because as we all know, either consciously or unconsciously, that the Constitution doesn't apply to employees in the private sector. It doesn't. Seriously.

If anyone doesn't believe me, I encourage that person to tell their boss how they really feel about their leadership skills. I'm waiting. Did you get a pink slip yet? The unemployment line starts down there.

Or, you can try to get your boss to present his case to a panel of your fellow employees to decide your fate for speaking your mind to the boss.

Wait... That doesn't happen, does it? Why? Because private companies don't have to follow the Constitution. Public enterprises (such as schools) have to follow the rules of the Constitution.

There is no need for unions in public schools.

There IS a need for unions in the public sector.

If a group of teachers in a private school want to unionize, nothing should stop them. But giving guarantees to an already "guaranteed" segment of society defeats any motivation to go beyond.

On both sides of this equation, people are taking the "easy" way out.


My thoughts.