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Old 11-08-2014, 04:39 PM
 
Location: MO->MI->CA->TX->MA
7,032 posts, read 14,485,551 times
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Think market's rigged? A Ponzi scheme? Get real: Advisor
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Old 11-10-2014, 04:17 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
2,914 posts, read 2,689,002 times
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The general public is comprised of a lot of idiots who believe every conspiracy they read on the Internet. Publicly traded companies are safe as long as you avoid microcap stocks (that get manipulated by third party pump and dumps). Private equity is where the Ponzi schemes are. Bernie Madoff was running a private operation. Go figure.

Also people equate large hedge fund bets, follow the herd market timers, and the market reacting to news as being a case of the stock market being "rigged". Nonsense. If the markets were rigged then why aren't bonds as volatile as stocks? It's still the open market. Stocks are just plain volatile by nature.
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Old 11-11-2014, 03:27 AM
 
106,677 posts, read 108,856,202 times
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if the gains i got the last 25 years were rigged i say rig it some more.
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Old 11-11-2014, 09:46 AM
 
12,022 posts, read 11,575,119 times
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He missed a point. The Ponzi scheme is the very high percentage of profits that is being put back into stock buybacks and dividends, which mostly enrich the corporate insiders. Only 9% of profits have been retained for business expansion and investment.

https://hbr.org/2014/09/profits-without-prosperity

As for the market rigging, you have to go back a couple of weeks to some news when the Dow was down 450 points intraday after some very obvious manipulations in the futures markets were attempted and failed. When the cash market continued declining, several Fed members spoke out during the trading day to try to prop up the market. It seems the Fed is overly sensitive to even very minor declines in the market.
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Old 11-11-2014, 11:44 AM
 
9,639 posts, read 6,019,409 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lchoro View Post
He missed a point. The Ponzi scheme is the very high percentage of profits that is being put back into stock buybacks and dividends, which mostly enrich the corporate insiders. Only 9% of profits have been retained for business expansion and investment.

https://hbr.org/2014/09/profits-without-prosperity
Stock buybacks benefit the owners, the shareholders of the corporation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lchoro View Post
As for the market rigging, you have to go back a couple of weeks to some news when the Dow was down 450 points intraday after some very obvious manipulations in the futures markets were attempted and failed. When the cash market continued declining, several Fed members spoke out during the trading day to try to prop up the market. It seems the Fed is overly sensitive to even very minor declines in the market.
Did you not read the OP's article? What happens on a daily or weekly basis doesn't matter. He didn't say short term manipulation wasn't possible. But anyone looking short term deserves to get bit.


People who believe the market is rigged are people who don't understand what they're doing.
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Old 11-12-2014, 09:04 AM
 
12,022 posts, read 11,575,119 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordSquidworth View Post
Stock buybacks benefit the owners, the shareholders of the corporation.
But the shares are predominantly owned by corporate insiders who compensate themselves with shares provided by their companies. That's why it has the appearance of a Ponzi scheme. They deplete the earnings retained by the company and load the company with debt to finance the purchases. In addition, the share buyback inflate the earnings per share which may be used to evaluate the performance of key officers in the company, thereby also resulting in excessive compensation.

Quote:
Did you not read the OP's article? What happens on a daily or weekly basis doesn't matter. He didn't say short term manipulation wasn't possible. But anyone looking short term deserves to get bit.
He didn't say that it doesn't matter. And he hasn't refuted the fact that rigging or manipulation doesn't occur. He said that in order to ignore the manipulation on a short-term or intermediate-term basis, you have to have funds in the markets for a long time and not move them around. That's really not new information. Financial advisors have been saying the same thing for many years.

Quote:
People who believe the market is rigged are people who don't understand what they're doing.
That's been heavily refuted by the recent news of various markets that have been shown to be rigged. See the news today for the lates. The FX market is key in understanding how other financial markets move.
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Old 11-12-2014, 03:19 PM
 
9,639 posts, read 6,019,409 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lchoro View Post
But the shares are predominantly owned by corporate insiders who compensate themselves with shares provided by their companies. That's why it has the appearance of a Ponzi scheme. They deplete the earnings retained by the company and load the company with debt to finance the purchases. In addition, the share buyback inflate the earnings per share which may be used to evaluate the performance of key officers in the company, thereby also resulting in excessive compensation.



He didn't say that it doesn't matter. And he hasn't refuted the fact that rigging or manipulation doesn't occur. He said that in order to ignore the manipulation on a short-term or intermediate-term basis, you have to have funds in the markets for a long time and not move them around. That's really not new information. Financial advisors have been saying the same thing for many years.



That's been heavily refuted by the recent news of various markets that have been shown to be rigged. See the news today for the lates. The FX market is key in understanding how other financial markets move.

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