When did you wise up and realize investing in individual stocks is for idiots? (dividends, investment)

[Jobster]

Originally Posted by CaptainNJ

keep on basing your strategy on what happened to madoff clients and keep getting no returns.

the funny thing is that you will end up with much less money and still probably think you are smarter than everyone else.

Oh my bad, I guess equities are the only thing I can invest in. I didn't know I had no other options.

Thank you for clarifying this for me.

Who said I was smarter than anyone? If anything, it's you that is playing the role of the "smart" guy. You made so much money in equities, you must be amazing. Wow.

All I did is provide an example of WHY index funds might be beating out managers. What do you want me to say? Tell people to put their live savings into a manipulated market? Wouldn't that be a violation of ethics?

[CaptainNJ]

Originally Posted by Jobster

Oh my bad, I guess equities are the only thing I can invest in. I didn't know I had no other options.

Thank you for clarifying this for me.

Who said I was smarter than anyone? If anything, it's you that is playing the role of the "smart" guy. You made so much money in equities, you must be amazing. Wow.

All I did is provide an example of WHY index funds might be beating out managers. What do you want me to say? Tell people to put their live savings into a manipulated market? Wouldn't that be a violation of ethics?

it looks to me like you are just criticizing an investment strategy that has been working. "you got a 17% return? oh thats a bubble!" so what are these other investments that you are putting your money in and how are they performing?

[Lowexpectations]

Originally Posted by CaptainNJ

yes. i have very little debt and i figure it is cheaper than buying the index on margin. so i added that.

And yet you were comparing your return with those who invested in stocks, ignoring that 10% of your portfolio uses 3x leverage is a bit of oversight and a glaring omission in your comparison

[Jobster]

Originally Posted by CaptainNJ

it looks to me like you are just criticizing an investment strategy that has been working. "you got a 17% return? oh thats a bubble!" so what are these other investments that you are putting your money in and how are they performing?

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[CaptainNJ]

Originally Posted by Lowexpectations

And yet you were comparing your return with those who invested in stocks, ignoring that 10% of your portfolio uses 3x leverage is a bit of oversight and a glaring omission in your comparison

i dont agree. i invest in index funds and that is my return. if anyone requests more detail, i am happy to provide it and i did. i agree that my initial statement is offering very limited info but i felt it was representative of my investing in index funds vs stocking picking and how i feel about it.

i never said that everyone who invests in index funds will get my returns. for that, i would certainly need to give the details of which funds i invest in.

[Lowexpectations]

Originally Posted by CaptainNJ

i dont agree. i invest in index funds and that is my return. if anyone requests more detail, i am happy to provide it and i did. i agree that my initial statement is offering very limited info but i felt it was representative of my investing in index funds vs stocking picking and how i feel about it.

i never said that everyone who invests in index funds will get my returns. for that, i would certainly need to give the details of which funds i invest in.

You might not agree but the comparison was flawed either purposefully to slant towards your view or ignorantly ignoring the leverage. Having 10% of your portofolio attempting to mimic 3x the s&p 500 is a bit disingenuous especially when you original stated you invested in index funds

[CaptainNJ]

Originally Posted by Lowexpectations

You might not agree but the comparison was flawed either purposefully to slant towards your view or ignorantly ignoring the leverage. Having 10% of your portofolio attempting to mimic 3x the s&p 500 is a bit disingenuous especially when you original stated you invested in index funds

i could have easily had a bond fund that was returning only 1% that would have severely reduced my return. there is no connection between the general category of "index funds" and return because there are index funds that follow so many different index funds (there are even reverse index funds). so i am not sure how you could take any return number i give and draw conclusions without knowing specifically what i hold. i was merely talking about my experience and basically i am saying that i feel using indexes has been better than picking individual investments for me.

it seems to me like you were looking for something different than what i was intending to share with my initial post.

[BigCityDreamer]

Originally Posted by hikernut

Indexes do not always recover in a timely manner, by the way. If you have 30 or 50 years to wait then sure you are probably fine. But our own market has gone through a few periods of 15+ years with pathetic returns, and Japanese investors are still waiting for a Nikkei recovery... 30 years have passed and it's still way below the old high.

By the way, I want to point out that we're better than Japan.

[CaptainNJ]

Originally Posted by Jobster

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that looks pretty sweet. how do i invest in that?

[Lowexpectations]

Originally Posted by CaptainNJ

i could have easily had a bond fund that was returning only 1% that would have severely reduced my return. there is no connection between the general category of "index funds" and return because there are index funds that follow so many different index funds (there are even reverse index funds). so i am not sure how you could take any return number i give and draw conclusions without knowing specifically what i hold. i was merely talking about my experience and basically i am saying that i feel using indexes has been better than picking individual investments for me.

it seems to me like you were looking for something different than what i was intending to share with my initial post.

Actually because of the wide ranges of indexes I initially responded your comparison was pretty much meaningless. Then to find out you were using a 3x leveraged product makes your attenuated comparison even worse