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Old 10-25-2018, 08:10 PM
 
37,315 posts, read 59,878,910 times
Reputation: 25341

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariadne22 View Post
The article is well worth a read. We clearly have a problem.
We certainly do...
And I am beginning to think that the meeting scheduled for Nov won't take place--Trump will upstage again

And did you read the stories about Trump's absolute refusal to change his phone for a secure one
So apparently his phone is likely being monitored by any foreign government that wants to listen to his whining to Sean Hannity or Steve Wynn
Maybe Mueller should consider that option...

Also very concerned about the actions in the South China Sea
That is likely to be more dangerous than the Middle East...

 
Old 10-25-2018, 08:27 PM
 
37,315 posts, read 59,878,910 times
Reputation: 25341
Quote:
Originally Posted by lchoro View Post
He's trying to gain leverage as the article below states. It is his normal negotiating tactic which was on display in the North Korea standoff until their test site became unusable. The administration would make false claims that the Koreans had made concessions or had completely caved into U.S. demands. They would unilaterally impose sanctions or stage belligerent military exercises in order to raise the ante. As a result, they were never negotiating from the same position that existed prior to the start of the crisis. The other side is left to match the US in new measures.

axios
m

I would just say the Chinese value tradition and don't appreciate losing face
Xi has nothing to lose
He is in there for life
Trump might THINK he has the same power
But China has outplayed the US so far 6 ways from Sunday
And they have natural resources that we don't
They might not have the global economy strength or the global currency reach now that we do
but they are working to change oil pricing away from US dollars
They think long-term and they work with a common purpose
Trump referred to John Bolton as "Michael" Bolton, the other day
What hope do we have in all honesty???
 
Old 10-25-2018, 08:50 PM
 
12,022 posts, read 11,575,119 times
Reputation: 11136
Quote:
Originally Posted by loves2read View Post
m

I would just say the Chinese value tradition and don't appreciate losing face
Xi has nothing to lose
He is in there for life
Trump might THINK he has the same power
But China has outplayed the US so far 6 ways from Sunday
And they have natural resources that we don't
They might not have the global economy strength or the global currency reach now that we do
but they are working to change oil pricing away from US dollars
They think long-term and they work with a common purpose
Trump referred to John Bolton as "Michael" Bolton, the other day
What hope do we have in all honesty???
It was inevitable that the Chinese would try to move up the value chain in technology to close the gap on military systems and avoid the predictable competition on commodity electronics from lower-tier Asian countries. They are where the Japanese were in the 80's and the South Koreans in the 90's.

How Japan Picks America's Brains

I remember when the Japanese had the terrible smog and pollution problem in the 70's and 80's because of all the manufacturing that had moved from the US.
 
Old 10-25-2018, 09:11 PM
 
7,473 posts, read 4,017,691 times
Reputation: 6462
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariadne22 View Post
Well, perhaps both of you will believe this:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-won...ina-1540465201



It sure appears that way. Eerily similar to Trump's scorched earth approach to anything related to Obama. Obama roasted him at that dinner and Trump never forgave him. What Trump did with Obama policies had nothing to do with Obama policies and everything to do with his personal hatred of Obama after that roasting.

Sounds like a similar animosity towards China which has festered with Trump for decades. Wonder what his real peeve is? They must have screwed with him at one time.

Whatever the reason, the Administration's failure to negotiate in good faith has created stock market chaos - particularly in tech.
And the Chinese have basically ignored any previous attempts to even our trade imbalance,going so far as to only allow American companies into china if they hand over all our tech secrets.Maybe its time someone played hard ball.
 
Old 10-25-2018, 09:38 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
25,580 posts, read 56,488,147 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffdoorgunner View Post
And the Chinese have basically ignored any previous attempts to even our trade imbalance,going so far as to only allow American companies into china if they hand over all our tech secrets.Maybe its time someone played hard ball.
Yes, I've know IP is the issue. But, then why negate the Mnuchin and Ross agreements? Are you saying neither of them knew before they took those meetings and made those agreements what it was Trump wanted and was nonnegotiable?

This makes no sense.
 
Old 10-25-2018, 09:40 PM
 
7,473 posts, read 4,017,691 times
Reputation: 6462
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariadne22 View Post
Yes, I've know IP is the issue. But, then why negate the Mnuchin and Ross agreements? Are you saying neither of them knew before they took those meetings and made those agreements what it was Trump wanted and was nonnegotiable?

This makes no sense.
unless your a fly on the wall...….. we will never know
 
Old 10-25-2018, 09:45 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
25,580 posts, read 56,488,147 times
Reputation: 23386
Trump is being as irresponsible with our trade policy as he has been with our foreign policy and his public utterances generally. He undercut Tillerson every chance he could, same with McMaster, Mattis and others. He says one thing one minute, the opposite the next. This behavior accomplishes nothing - and creates enormous confusion and chaos - not to mention anger and frustration. An environment of chaos and confusion are not conducive to positive results - no matter the issue. Rather, it signifies incompetence.
 
Old 10-26-2018, 08:03 AM
 
Location: NJ
31,771 posts, read 40,705,240 times
Reputation: 24590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariadne22 View Post
Yes, I've know IP is the issue. But, then why negate the Mnuchin and Ross agreements? Are you saying neither of them knew before they took those meetings and made those agreements what it was Trump wanted and was nonnegotiable?

This makes no sense.
do you have the text for those agreements?

how far along were they? were they really completed?
 
Old 10-26-2018, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
7,650 posts, read 4,601,843 times
Reputation: 12713
Personally, I think Trump has maneuvered to exactly where he wants to be, and has planned to be going since the start.


https://www.nytimes.com/politics/fir...inese-exports/


Trump's going to bluster through trade deals because that's what he thinks is the right thing to do, both for the country and his political base. He doesn't like Jiiina. He doesn't think they'll hold their end to any bargain made and he needed an escalation path that didn't immediately result in WTO sanctions from around the world.



He's going to hold up China for as long as he can because he can use that to show other nations what will happen to them if they don't give in to our trade demands.



See him marching off to Saudi Arabia? His move helped speed up Turkey's demise. Far from speak softly and carry a big stick, he's shouting incoherently and carrying what's big to his tiny hands....but in a worldwide game of hot potato...nobody wants this guys negative attention for too long. His bully thought is its just too expensive for them to oppose him. The other side will think this is all done in a couple years, give in for now.



I would completely expect him to continue to treat China as a respected adversary or rival. He can't let it go too far or nothing gets done. He can't let it get resolved too soon, or the fear is gone and the eventual underwhelming deal seems silly. He's got Corporate America rethinking their China approach. He needs that to sink in and plans to be executed on. Then....he can relax the stance.



Honestly, it's right out of China's playbook. New product or service is launched and the founder doesn't want to do a JV with China....stall stall stall until copies or alternatives have already developed....then open the market.



He's going to stall stall stall until companies decide China is too risky to rely upon for more than selling to the Chinese market. Even if the jobs don't come back, they likely goto areas where the US has more sway.



It's far too horrible for our finely tuned tastes, but from a guy that started out comparing himself to Andrew Jackson (guy that took out the National Bank, which responded by calling in loans and crushing the country) it's not altogether unexpected.



Honestly, it adds a level to the negotiation strategy that Americans haven't used in so long, the world thought it was gone. Don't tread on me, I'll play lose-you lose more.



I would not expect a fast resolution. Xi and Trump are cut from the same cloth. Xi's smarter, but Trump has less to lose...and it's personal.
 
Old 10-26-2018, 03:32 PM
 
3,786 posts, read 5,331,294 times
Reputation: 6309
Quote:
Originally Posted by TravelingBoat View Post
I don't trust ANYTHING from the Washington Compost, the alt-left anti-Trump propaganda outlet.
Then read the South China Morning Post like I do. The Chinese are more pragmatic than US Americans.

BTW, the SCMP editorialized that the tariffs will hurt China more than the USA due to the massive trade IMbalance.

Balanced trade would be nice.
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