U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-04-2012, 03:04 PM
 
762 posts, read 991,655 times
Reputation: 221

Advertisements

I know what country you mean Woodrow, this week a mother was jailed for beating her young son to death for failing to memorise passages in the Quran. She was a muslim, not of the country you refer, but very much thought of herself as a devout muslim.

The trouble is although you may say muslims act for themselves, and against Islam, they use Islam as their defence for their actions. So really I think it's about time that there was maybe some structured guidance, because some muslims just go on committing dreadful cruelties and they believe they do so under the umbrella of Islam.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-04-2012, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,337,178 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nefol View Post
I know what country you mean Woodrow, this week a mother was jailed for beating her young son to death for failing to memorise passages in the Quran. She was a muslim, not of the country you refer, but very much thought of herself as a devout muslim.

The trouble is although you may say muslims act for themselves, and against Islam, they use Islam as their defence for their actions. So really I think it's about time that there was maybe some structured guidance, because some muslims just go on committing dreadful cruelties and they believe they do so under the umbrella of Islam.

While on the surface that sounds feasible. But to do so would place an intermediary between the individual and Allaah(swt) It is a delicate balance as to teach about Islam requires one to admit they are not to be followed without question. A teacher needs to teach self responsibility, not their own Tafsir of Islam.

What can be done is for us to encourage the better educated among us to take on the responsibility of becoming teachers rather than successful professionals. May be better if some of our Brothers and Sisters concentrate more on Teaching careers instead of lucrative medical careers.

It is said Islam is taught at the feet of the Mothers. We need to concentrate on that in areas were it is apparent the children are not learning about Islam.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-05-2012, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,337,178 times
Reputation: 7407
I think this to point out why the Qur'an is initially taught through rote memory. The Qur'an is written in Qur'anic Arabic. Virtually every child learning the Qur'an does not speak Arabic and will never use it as a daily language. The first step in learning the Qur'an is to gain a usable vocabulary of the Qur'anic Arabic. So far the most effective means of learning a language is through total immersion, repetition and rote memory.

It generally takes a child from 3 to 10 years to learn the Qur'an. After learning the Qur'an then discussions over meanings, interpretations etc can take place. you have to have a grasp of the language before you can understand what is written in the language.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-05-2012, 03:02 PM
 
762 posts, read 991,655 times
Reputation: 221
Does not sound like good practice to learn anything by rote, in a language you don't understand and especially under threat of punishment if you get it wrong.

I don't know how it works in the US, but in the UK religious education is taught from an early age to be inclusive of all religions. So hopefully children grow with the understanding that religion is a personal choice, and no one is right and better than another. We all stand equal in Gods eyes.

It surprise me when my muslim friends not from the UK, had very little knowledge of other religion, and what they did know and were told as truth was more often than not wrong and distorted. I have to say I have met muslims with what I can only describe as a kind of arrogance and a mistaken belief in their religious superiority, I assumed this was how they were taught at school.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-05-2012, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,337,178 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nefol View Post
Does not sound like good practice to learn anything by rote, in a language you don't understand and especially under threat of punishment if you get it wrong.

I don't know how it works in the US, but in the UK religious education is taught from an early age to be inclusive of all religions. So hopefully children grow with the understanding that religion is a personal choice, and no one is right and better than another. We all stand equal in Gods eyes.

It surprise me when my muslim friends not from the UK, had very little knowledge of other religion, and what they did know and were told as truth was more often than not wrong and distorted. I have to say I have met muslims with what I can only describe as a kind of arrogance and a mistaken belief in their religious superiority, I assumed this was how they were taught at school.

I do agree that teaching with threat of punishment is not only wrong it is ineffective.

I speak several Languages, each of them I learned through total immersion and rote memory. I can only say that it worked for me.

I began learning the Qur'an in Arabic 7 years ago I guess the old brain cells are no longer there. i have not yet memorized as much as one full Juz. But in trying to memorize my Qur'anic vocabulary has grown so it is not really a loss.

I can remember in grade school we were given 10 new spelling words every Monday and on Friday were given a spelling test . those were rote memory but in the 6 years of Grade school we each built up a fairly good vocabulary.

People are only going to learn what they are exposed with. many people world wide are only exposed to the religion they are exposed to. In Greece you are not likely to come across anyone who has knowledge of any Religion except Greek Orthodox. I Sicily I doubt if you will come across many qho have any knowledge except of Roman Catholicism. In the UK and USA you come across diversity daily. although in areas like wmere I live the Non-Muslim Population has virtually no knowledge of Islam. Us Muslims are scarce in the Dakotas. People here have little contact with Muslims.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-06-2012, 02:58 PM
 
762 posts, read 991,655 times
Reputation: 221
Can't speak for Sicily or Greece as I have little experience of how they view things. I guess everyone has a preferred way of learning. I always think a person can learn far more about things by seeking information themselves from as many different sources as possible.

My parents always brought me up to question things, seek the truth and never to be afraid to stand up for what I believe. Oh....and be respectful of others.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-06-2012, 06:47 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,337,178 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nefol View Post
Can't speak for Sicily or Greece as I have little experience of how they view things. I guess everyone has a preferred way of learning. I always think a person can learn far more about things by seeking information themselves from as many different sources as possible.

My parents always brought me up to question things, seek the truth and never to be afraid to stand up for what I believe. Oh....and be respectful of others.
I agree. that is an excellent way to learn,

The only problem is it is a scary way of learning as it is a sink or swim proposition and some people just can not face risks. But it should always be an open option to any one who is ready to accept responsibility.

I thank your parents, for teaching you a lesson, that makes it a pleasure to discuss things with you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-06-2012, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,125,506 times
Reputation: 1399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
The only problem is it is a scary way of learning as it is a sink or swim proposition and some people just can not face risks.
That is a very good point, Woodrow. Some people don't like figuring things out for themselves.

I recall someone saying, "The bible says it, I believe it, and that ends it."

On the other hand, I was never taught anything about religion by my parents, so I have always had to figure those things our for myself.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-07-2012, 07:05 AM
 
762 posts, read 991,655 times
Reputation: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I agree. that is an excellent way to learn,

The only problem is it is a scary way of learning as it is a sink or swim proposition and some people just can not face risks. But it should always be an open option to any one who is ready to accept responsibility.

I thank your parents, for teaching you a lesson, that makes it a pleasure to discuss things with you.
Thank you Woodrow you are a true gent.

I agree it can be a scary prospect for some people to have to accept responsibility but there should be measures within society that guides and cares for people until they hopefully have the confidence to stand on their own terms.

Family in the first instance...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-07-2012, 07:12 AM
 
762 posts, read 991,655 times
Reputation: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
That is a very good point, Woodrow. Some people don't like figuring things out for themselves.

I recall someone saying, "The bible says it, I believe it, and that ends it."

On the other hand, I was never taught anything about religion by my parents, so I have always had to figure those things our for myself.
Do you think figuring things out for yourself has been a good option for you?

I guess as I was born and brought up in a Christian family and so on that basis my religion was chosen for me, but then that counts for most people I think. However I was always encouraged to find the truth for myself, that my beliefs should be mine, and not someone else's idea of what they should be. I know my parents would have loved me just the same if I had decided to follow another path.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top