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Old 08-12-2016, 02:00 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,587,520 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Both mind and heart are used to receive information and react to it. There would be no reaction from heart unless the information reaches the heart. Reaction/expression then is from the heart.

We are not talking here about what is human being or what is most critical element to define a human being. We are talking about stupid infidels not understanding the message through their brains and their reaction to it through their hearts.
I have to said the more you insist the more it make you look stupid.

The main function of the heart is to pump blood around the body to deliver oxygen.
The heart is a muscular organ in humans and other animals, which pumps blood through the blood vessels of the circulatory system.[1] Blood provides the body with oxygen and nutrients, and also assists in the removal of metabolic wastes.[2] The heart is located in the middle compartment of the mediastinum in the chest. -wiki
The function of the heart is not to receive critical information [other than those that are related to its main function] and sent such information to the brain.
I have mentioned there are information that flow between the heart and the brain but such a process is not critical for the information and nervous system of the human being. In addition, information flow from all parts of the body and the critical element is the central nervous system, where the brain is the most central element.
Obviously if one feel pain on the toe, the information starts from the point where the toe is prick by a nail, etc. But the central processing of pain is in the brain and the experience is stored in the brain, not the heart or in the toe.

There is no information hidden in the heart or breast of men as the Quran claimed.
The Quran mentioned thoughts are hidden in the breast of men because then in the 7th century, people were very ignorant of the existence and function of the human brain.
It was only about 50 years ago that scientists had a greater understanding of the function of the brain and even now they are still way off from the full knowledge of the function of the brain.

Point is such ignorance of the brain and how it works prove the Quran was authored by human[s] and not an all-knowing God who should know everything.

In contrast, note many of the Eastern religions, especially had already delve into the depths of the brain and mind 2,500 years ago. Just google to find out more and here is one example;

Quote:
Many of Buddhism’s core tenets significantly overlap with findings from modern neurology and neuroscience. So how did Buddhism come close to getting the brain right?
Buddhism and the Brain SEEDMAGAZINE.COM
Quote:
A person is living as long as his heart is functioning even when he is brain dead. But if brain is not dead but heart stops, brain will die too.
The fact that without a heart a person cannot survive do not imply that the heart contain critical information or has hidden thoughts of love, hate, other emotions, etc.

For your information I have mentioned earlier, a person can survive with an artificial heart or transplanted heart but not likely to survive with artificial brain or transplanted brain as the same person before.
An artificial heart is a device that replaces the heart. Artificial hearts are typically used to bridge the time to heart transplantation, or to permanently replace the heart in case heart transplantation is impossible.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_heart
Quote:
Process in the heart is critical in expression/reaction to any information already received. If heart wasn't aware of the information received, there would be no reaction from it such as love and hate. Heart is central to living humans and their reactions.
This is stupid stuff. How can you be SO ignorant on this matter?


Quote:
Reaction is always through the heart as witnessed by the heart beat and changes in the blood pressure. It means the information has been relayed to the heart.
Have you ever experienced or observed the person is always frightened initially and only thereafter the heart beat faster and the blood pressure rises. This is because the information is first processed in the brain first then passed on the heart for it to response by beating faster sending more blood to parts of the body that need it.

Quote:
All animals have heart. Even a dog is more faithful to his master than a human. Doesn't that mean that a dog has more love for his master than a human has for his Master?
Don't be that ignorant. Not all living things has a heart BUT all living things has a central nervous system to facilitate its survival and this central nervous system evolved with the brain as its manager. This show that the brain is more critical than the heart.
The fact is the God in the Quran, rather the authors of the Quran were ignorant of this fact of the existence and criticalness of the central nervous system of living things.

As for the dog, it is an animal that has been endowed to a bonding faculty with humans as an instinct to facilitate its survival from thousands of years. Put a dog in the wild and make it feral, it will bite any human who get near it.

Quote:
Information determining is done by the brain but the reaction to it always through the heart or else there would be no difference in heart beat and difference in blood pressure.
Yes, the heart merely response to information from the brain where necessary but the heart do not keep information hidden as the ignorant Quran [rather its human(s) authors] claimed.
It is the same with the dick, it get information from the necessary brain and get erected but the no information is processed and stored in the dick itself. Get it!

Quote:
Funny how love is in the hearts of infidels but when it comes to Muslims it should be in their brains only.
This is a straw man and irrelevant. No informed non-Muslims or even informed Muslims will agree that love is literally from the heart itself.

Quote:
I knew you would soon jump from breasts of infidels to teaching us neuroscience. Don't worry, when your heart stops functioning you will have no love or hate for anything. Even your brain depends on your heart.
Frankly it should have nothing to do with me, rather the onus is on you to be a responsible citizen of humanity to educate yourself on your own human nature. If you are lazy or not be able to educate yourself on neuroscience then just be humble and acknowledge your ignorance instead of countering with stupid stuffs as if you are an expert on the subject like what you are doing above.

My brain do not have to depend on my heart exclusively. In principle and as a matter of fact my or anyone's brain can depend of an artificial heart or somebody else heart to survive.
If your brain is damaged beyond repair, there is no more "you" when you are in coma whilst still surviving with a beating heart.

My point:
The OP prove that the Quran was ignorant of the critical existence of the brain/mind which is responsible for processing information and thoughts.
This ignorance is from the human[s] who authored the Quran not from an all-knowing God.

Last edited by Continuum; 08-12-2016 at 02:47 AM..
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Old 08-12-2016, 03:31 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,041,478 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I have to said the more you insist the more it make you look stupid.
The more you talk about science the more you look stupid talking about religion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I have mentioned there are information that flow between the heart and the brain but such a process is not critical for the information and nervous system of the human being.
There you go again! Denial, denial! Man can have heart attack with certain information reaching the heart but you don't regard it critical even though human's life depends on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
There is no information hidden in the heart or breast of men as the Quran claimed.
The Quran mentioned thoughts are hidden in the breast of men because then in the 7th century, people were very ignorant of the existence and function of the human brain.
It was only about 50 years ago that scientists had a greater understanding of the function of the brain and even now they are still way off from the full knowledge of the function of the brain.
And you are arguing here as if you know the brain and the heart inside out!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Point is such ignorance of the brain and how it works prove the Quran was authored by human[s] and not an all-knowing God who should know everything.
No. You are once again wrong here about all-knowing God. God did say in a manner that those people could understand readily. That does not mean God did not know where thinking takes place.

[96.16] A lying, sinful forehead.

God did not say, "a lying sinful heart" here. He has left his fingerprint that He knew where thinking begins even 1400 years ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Have you ever experienced or observed the person is always frightened initially and only thereafter the heart beat faster and the blood pressure rises. This is because the information is first processed in the brain first then passed on the heart for it to response by beating faster sending more blood to parts of the body that need it.
Exactly my point! The response is from the heart to any information that reaches it.
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Old 08-13-2016, 09:47 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,587,520 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
The more you talk about science the more you look stupid talking about religion.
What? Religion should be studied in complimentary with Science. Where they differ in knowledge, Science should prevail at all times.

Here is a mark of a matured and advanced religion;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalai Lama
“If scientific analysis were conclusively to demonstrate certain claims in Buddhism to be false, then we must accept the findings of science and abandon those claims.”

― Dalai Lama XIV, The Universe in a Single Atom: The Convergence of Science and Spirituality
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif
There you go again! Denial, denial! Man can have heart attack with certain information reaching the heart but you don't regard it critical even though human's life depends on it.
True a man can have a heart attack upon certain stimuli to the heart. This information can be from the brain or the instinctual reactions of the heart, say if cold water is pour over the chest suddenly. Note heart attack is due to the failure of the mechanisms [valves, channels, etc.] of the heart. Whilst this is a fatal and critical matter, it has nothing to do with the OP.

The fact is critical information as in the OP are not hidden in the breasts of men, if this refer to the heart.


Quote:
And you are arguing here as if you know the brain and the heart inside out!
I don't claim to be an expert but I have read enough to understand the fundamentals relevant to the issue of the OP.
What about you? You are merely relying on blind faith and denying the facts.

Quote:
No. You are once again wrong here about all-knowing God. God did say in a manner that those people could understand readily. That does not mean God did not know where thinking takes place.

[96.16] A lying, sinful forehead.

God did not say, "a lying sinful heart" here. He has left his fingerprint that He knew where thinking begins even 1400 years ago.
In the Quran, 'breast' in mentioned around 20+ times in relation to what is hidden in terms of thoughts which we can infer it meant hiding lies, deceptions, schemes, sinful thoughts, etc.
The Quran only mentioned 'forelock' once.
This meant Allah mentioned the wrong thing more than 20 times in the Quran and got in right once.
This prove the Quran was authored by human[s] and not an all-knowing God who would not make such mistakes.

Quote:
Exactly my point! The response is from the heart to any information that reaches it.

You misread my point.

I stated;
1st -the perceptive organs received external information re fears.
2nd -the brain process the information in relation to its data base [nature or nurture]
3rd -information is then send to the heart
4th -the heart respond accordingly.

There are no fear or hate, love information stored or hidden in the heart nor breast of humans.

The Quran used the phrase 'breast of men' because they were ignorant and thought information can be stored in the heart [breasts] of men. Note the Quran did not mention 'heart' so it could even meant lungs.
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Old 08-15-2016, 02:15 PM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,041,478 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post

In the Quran, 'breast' in mentioned around 20+ times in relation to what is hidden in terms of thoughts which we can infer it meant hiding lies, deceptions, schemes, sinful thoughts, etc.
The Quran only mentioned 'forelock' once.
This meant Allah mentioned the wrong thing more than 20 times in the Quran and got in right once.
That means Allah knew where the lie began 1400 years ago. Human beings knew then that neither the forehead lies nor the forelocks are liars but Allah had left His "fingerprint" to deal with the Qur'an haters years later.

This is another example of the way Allah drives the infidels astray when they disbelieve the Qur'an. Definitely ALL-Knowing!
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Old 08-16-2016, 01:18 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,587,520 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
That means Allah knew where the lie began 1400 years ago. Human beings knew then that neither the forehead lies nor the forelocks are liars but Allah had left His "fingerprint" to deal with the Qur'an haters years later.

This is another example of the way Allah drives the infidels astray when they disbelieve the Qur'an. Definitely ALL-Knowing!
Not sure of your point.

As for mind and brain, the Eastern religions were focusing on the mind in details, thousands of years before Allah of the Quran mentioned the forelock in relation to a "lie" [lying] merely in one verse. This is why I stated Islam is kindergarten stuffs in terms of 'spirituality' when compared to the sophisticated aspects of the Eastern religions.
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Old 08-16-2016, 02:07 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,041,478 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Not sure of your point.
Never mind; you won't want to know even if you were sure what I meant.
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