Lesson for Jacksonville Planners: Urban living is the future (renting, insurance)

[jsimms3]

Mississippimagnolia,

Fine. Familes with young children who can't/won't afford private school for many many reasons have every right to go to a suburban county. Downtown Jacksonville/Jacksonville as a whole cannot even attract the young professionals. Therein lies the problem. No offense, but from a city development POV, I personally could care less about middle class families and where they choose to live anymore. I don't want to be in a city whose main target demographic is middle class, predominantly right wing families. I want to be in a city filled with young, single professionals, corporate execs, empty nesters, and a diverse population. Jacksonville can't seem to attract any of these groups.

Most cities have family oriented towns in the suburbs and younger demographics/wealthier demographics in the city. That's normal even for New York City.

[fsquid]

Saw this on Sunday in the hometown Memphis newspaper and thought of this board. Actually went to school with the two guys pictured.

Downtown Memphis luring young, educated professionals » The Commercial Appeal

[fsu813]

Love it!

And its not just Memphis, its most every large city.

[mississippimagnolia]

Familes with young children who can't/won't afford private school for many many reasons have every right to go to a suburban county

This is exactly the problem. There are many, many, many families exactly like us who can afford private schools. We had our kids in privates for years when we lived in Mississippi. We didn't feel like we had any other option. However, in the Jacksonville area, there IS an option. And even those of us who can easily afford private schools, don't necessarily want to pay for it if we don't have to.

Downtown Jacksonville/Jacksonville as a whole cannot even attract the young professionals.

I can tell you as a former young "professional" who has lived in several very urban areas, the reason I chose to live in those cities was because (1) It was easy to get to and from work. (2) There was a ton to do nearby. And (3) There was nothing out in the suburbs that would make living there more desirable. You have to overcome (1) Jacksonville is spread out and there is no "metro" type system. No easy, reliable public transportation. (2) There just isn't that much downtown, at least not that I've seen. If there is, it isn't being well-advertised. And (3) You have to compete with the beach. Those things give Jacksonville challenges that many other urban areas don't have. I'm not saying it's not possible. What I am saying is that statements like this:

I personally could care less about middle class families and where they choose to live anymore. I don't want to be in a city whose main target demographic is middle class, predominantly right wing families. I want to be in a city filled with young, single professionals, corporate execs, empty nesters, and a diverse population.

Aren't going to help. Downtown Jacksonville needs to attract anyone with money. Single professionals, married folks, empty nesters,.... They should all be targeted. Not sure exactly why you mentioned "right wing". How does political affiliation possibly matter? It's ironic that your next statement references a "diverse population". Are you sure you understand what diversity means? If you want a diversity, then you are going to have to be willing to live near people who are different than you are. That's what diversity means.

Most cities have family oriented towns in the suburbs and younger demographics/wealthier demographics in the city. That's normal even for New York City.

THIS is changing. And successful downtown areas are capitalizing on that. Not too many years ago, it was almost unheard of for families to move into the heart of D.C. Now it's becoming very popular. Those families have made great strides in improving the public elementary schools in the District. Most still have to rely on the privates for middle and high school. And most of the people who shell out 3-4 million for a house in the district could afford private elementary schools. They don't want to! They want their kids in a truly diverse school. However, they are committed to making sure those schools educate.

That is happening all over the country. If Jacksonville wants a thriving downtown, it has to fix the schools.

[jsimms3]

mississippimagnolia,

Good points, but I mentioned "right wing" because any and all public spending except for new, suburban road construction is frowned upon by uber conservatives. Jacksonville is the ultimate reflection of that. Do I wish everyone was more moderate and choosy in public spending than all or nothing? Sure. That's not how society is anymore.

Here is a quote from that Memphis article that sums it up perfectly (and the FTU message boards are full of posters like this here in Jax...nobody can write anything pro-downtown or pro-alternative transit without being labeled a socialist, liberal, elitist a**hole).


From "herpaderpadoo: (like the name?):

No thanks. The last thing this city needs is overeducated young people who are likely to vote and likely to vote for liberals. With downtown as dangerous as it is, you'd think that these young professionals would know better and look for homes in DeSoto county instead.

Fortunately, Hoss1979 gets it right:

Common sense should dictate that everyone in the Memphis metropolitan area should be happy by a story like this, as well as the recent article about the economic "red line" around Memphis fading. A healthy Memphis is key to a healthy hinterland.

And mkuhn:

I used to live in the burbs when I first moved here. I have nothing against those who choose to live out there, but to be honest it wasn't for me. Try to find great restaurants in Arlington or Lakeland.

What I find more troubling is the attitude that the outlying towns think they exist in a vacuum. We rely on each other. The sooner we all realize that the better off we will all be.

[JBtwinz]

Politics aside, I know living in the burbs outside cities like Boston, Providence and Chicago people flock to the city for the excitement of things to do and see. People here seem to stay in their own area's. Downtown is sort of like a wasteland that gets farther left behind and forgotten as the burbs continue their march into Saint John"s County. Boston and Providence are extremely liberal and they have had tremendous urban renewal.

[jsimms3]

^^^That is true. People who live in the suburbs do do so for more peace and quiet or better schools, but everyone loves coming into the city. I know that kids growing up in the suburbs of Philly, New York, Boston, Atlanta, and Chicago grew up riding the rails into the city to hang out downtown or in other urban neighborhoods. Also, tiny Charlotte (tiny is relative...Charlotte seems so much larger than Jacksonville) gives off this vibe almost moreso than any place I have been. Everyone in Charlotte travels into "Uptown" or Dilworth to hang out on a daily basis. Charlotte is extremely suburban (outside of Uptown and Dilworth, the whole city is like the northern suburbs of Atlanta or in our case Baymeadows). As a result, their Uptown feels very much like a city and people are everywhere from 9 a.m. to 12 a.m. (later on the weekend).

Where I live I actually feel like the "cool local" who has to put up with all the tourists, visitors, and suburbanites who come in and clog up the area on a daily basis. On a lighter scale, it must be like what Manhattanites feel like all the time. It's a special draw, an energy per se, and this is the energy that people love about cities. Visitors feel it when the come in from their suburbs, and for a little while they are jealous. Residents feel it 24/7, but they want to feel that pulse 24/7 and don't have a need for more peace and quiet.

Jacksonville is missing that energy, completely. There's not that cool factor or that hustle and bustle. Living in the city does not energize you or make you feel special, and this is the feeling that many people, especially young people, like (in addition to being near each other, "running into" things to do, and other factors).

[fsu813]

I attended a great downtown forum hosted by Jacksonville's leading young professionals group (IMPACTjax) this evening. The keynote was from Don Shea and Ed Burr of the Jacksonville Civic Council. The JCC is basically a big group of very well-known business leaders that know quite well that Downtown's benefit everyoine in the city....from tourist dollars, to tax revenue, to reducing the cost of sprawl, to attracting successful people to live and work in Jacksonville.

Anyways, it was great forum. Good things discussed. If the JCC has anything to do with it, and they do, Downtown Jax will translate the grassroots momentum into COJ policy/prviate investment momentum. = )

By the way, if you haven't been to the Skyline Cafe on the 42nd floor of the Banl of America building, you're really missing out. AMAZING views of Jacksonville. That's wherethe function was this evening, but they are normally open for lunch, and a couple evenings: Restaurant Review: The Skyline is cafeteria dining with stellar view | jacksonville.com

[JBtwinz]

QUOTE: By the way, if you haven't been to the Skyline Cafe on the 42nd floor of the Banl of America building, you're really missing out. AMAZING views of Jacksonville. That's wherethe function was this evening, but they are normally open for lunch, and a couple evenings: Restaurant Review: The Skyline is cafeteria dining with stellar view | jacksonville.com

Thanks, I was asking about this resturant in another thread. I don't see any evening hours, so it will have to be lunch.

[Robyn55]

Another place to dine with great views is the River Club. We're not members - but eat there from time to time when we get together with lawyers who work downtown. Robyn