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I attended a great downtown forum hosted by Jacksonville's leading young professionals group (IMPACTjax) this evening. The keynote was from Don Shea and Ed Burr of the Jacksonville Civic Council. The JCC is basically a big group of very well-known business leaders that know quite well that Downtown's benefit everyoine in the city....from tourist dollars, to tax revenue, to reducing the cost of sprawl, to attracting successful people to live and work in Jacksonville.
Anyways, it was great forum. Good things discussed. If the JCC has anything to do with it, and they do, Downtown Jax will translate the grassroots momentum into COJ policy/prviate investment momentum. = )
By the way, if you haven't been to the Skyline Cafe on the 42nd floor of the Banl of America building, you're really missing out. AMAZING views of Jacksonville. That's wherethe function was this evening, but they are normally open for lunch, and a couple evenings: Restaurant Review: The Skyline is cafeteria dining with stellar view | jacksonville.com
I hadn't heard of either guy you mentioned. The first - Shea - seems to be a professional academic type. Been/worked at lots of places - has a lot of visions - doesn't do stuff. Advises other people how to do things. The other - Burr - seems to develop suburbs. Compared to these guys - Tony Sleiman looks good (he at least puts his money where his mouth is - like in the Landing).
I don't know. At some - I think we have to let downtown JAX crash and burn - get so cheap that it is irresistible. Kind of like what we have to do with housing in Florida in general these days. Attempts to prop up failing enterprises don't usually work IMO. But - at some point - if the price is right - the vulture investors will start to circle. And you can start to build from the ashes. Robyn
Ugh, some of you guys are clueless. Downtowns don't get "rebirthed" by artificially injecting growth into them. That's Urban 101, fellas.
Robyn actually has it spot on, but none of you want to hear that. Downtown will never recover unless it's allowed to crash, then grow back organically. Who are these big pie-in-the-sky multi million dollar developments/brand new condos that are too expensive for anyone to live in for exactly??
You have to get out of the way, make rents cheap & let the eccentrics move in first, define it & have their way with it, then the rest of crowds follow. Our downtown seems to think its worth more than it is. Seen Main Street lately? Pretty crappy & desolate, huh?? Apparently because none the slumlords who own those buildings on upper main will lower their rents, even on some straight up dilapidated storefronts, because they're living in some dream world & think we're just gonna bounce right back to 2005 bubble-land. Yeah, OK. Keep thinking that, meanwhile your places have been vacant for years & your roof is caving in.
Downtown didn't need high end development, it didn't need the Landing, it didn't need some stupid monorail that went nowhere. And it doesn't need whatever the hell else "big project" they're going to announce that'll likely mean nothing in reality. It just needed to keep what it had usable & functional & not have half of its housing stock/neighborhoods blown to smithereens for surface parking lots so that there was still affordable places to live with character, places to put small local businesses, etc without a lot of bureaucratic BS.
At this point, the only thing that'll save the too far gone downtown of Jacksonville Florida is for the idiot city leaders (who've done nothing but harm for it for decades) to just GTF outta the way, relax some of the asinine laws governing it, let it crash & let the people who want to rebuild it rebuild it. Anything else is just playing the same old games that got it into the shape its in currently.
But yeah, I'm sure fixing up an old fountain no one gives 2 sh*ts about & that new announcement is gonna do the trick. Boy, happy days are here again for downtown! Reality check time.
Ugh, some of you guys are clueless. Downtowns don't get "rebirthed" by artificially injecting growth into them. That's Urban 101, fellas.
Robyn actually has it spot on, but none of you want to hear that. Downtown will never recover unless it's allowed to crash, then grow back organically. Who are these big pie-in-the-sky multi million dollar developments/brand new condos that are too expensive for anyone to live in for exactly??
You have to get out of the way, make rents cheap & let the eccentrics move in first, define it & have their way with it, then the rest of crowds follow. Our downtown seems to think its worth more than it is. Seen Main Street lately? Pretty crappy & desolate, huh?? Apparently because none the slumlords who own those buildings on upper main will lower their rents, even on some straight up dilapidated storefronts, because they're living in some dream world & think we're just gonna bounce right back to 2005 bubble-land. Yeah, OK. Keep thinking that, meanwhile your places have been vacant for years & your roof is caving in.
Downtown didn't need high end development, it didn't need the Landing, it didn't need some stupid monorail that went nowhere. And it doesn't need whatever the hell else "big project" they're going to announce that'll likely mean nothing in reality. It just needed to keep what it had usable & functional & not have half of its housing stock/neighborhoods blown to smithereens for surface parking lots so that there was still affordable places to live with character, places to put small local businesses, etc without a lot of bureaucratic BS.
At this point, the only thing that'll save the too far gone downtown of Jacksonville Florida is for the idiot city leaders (who've done nothing but harm for it for decades) to just GTF outta the way, relax some of the asinine laws governing it, let it crash & let the people who want to rebuild it rebuild it. Anything else is just playing the same old games that got it into the shape its in currently.
But yeah, I'm sure fixing up an old fountain no one gives 2 sh*ts about & that new announcement is gonna do the trick. Boy, happy days are here again for downtown! Reality check time.
What are you reading? Who said anything about injecting anything artificial? Who said anything about highend development? Who said anything about a big project?
I guess it was past due for a rant about how everything is hopeless.
Fortunatley, that's not the case.
The only "big news" that I mentioned is the relatively big news of multiple noteable businesses relocating to downtown, in the coming weeks/months.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsu813
There will be some big news about downtown in the coming weeks/months. Ie, business relocations.
Ugh, some of you guys are clueless. Downtowns don't get "rebirthed" by artificially injecting growth into them. That's Urban 101, fellas.
Robyn actually has it spot on, but none of you want to hear that. Downtown will never recover unless it's allowed to crash, then grow back organically. Who are these big pie-in-the-sky multi million dollar developments/brand new condos that are too expensive for anyone to live in for exactly??
You have to get out of the way, make rents cheap & let the eccentrics move in first, define it & have their way with it, then the rest of crowds follow. Our downtown seems to think its worth more than it is. Seen Main Street lately? Pretty crappy & desolate, huh?? Apparently because none the slumlords who own those buildings on upper main will lower their rents, even on some straight up dilapidated storefronts, because they're living in some dream world & think we're just gonna bounce right back to 2005 bubble-land. Yeah, OK. Keep thinking that, meanwhile your places have been vacant for years & your roof is caving in.
Downtown didn't need high end development, it didn't need the Landing, it didn't need some stupid monorail that went nowhere. And it doesn't need whatever the hell else "big project" they're going to announce that'll likely mean nothing in reality. It just needed to keep what it had usable & functional & not have half of its housing stock/neighborhoods blown to smithereens for surface parking lots so that there was still affordable places to live with character, places to put small local businesses, etc without a lot of bureaucratic BS.
At this point, the only thing that'll save the too far gone downtown of Jacksonville Florida is for the idiot city leaders (who've done nothing but harm for it for decades) to just GTF outta the way, relax some of the asinine laws governing it, let it crash & let the people who want to rebuild it rebuild it. Anything else is just playing the same old games that got it into the shape its in currently.
But yeah, I'm sure fixing up an old fountain no one gives 2 sh*ts about & that new announcement is gonna do the trick. Boy, happy days are here again for downtown! Reality check time.
Sorry I can't rep you again - gotta spread the love around . Actually what got me thinking was these Republican developer types embracing Brown (cautiously). Reckon they figure he'll spread some taxpayer money around on another big deal "project to nowhere". (Note that this is just a hunch on my part.)
And I think you're absolutely right (and not only because you agree with me ). I saw something like this happen in center city Philadelphia. Came back from the dead. But perhaps because it had some unique characteristics (like a large supply of potentially charming but decrepit townhouses very close to downtown work places). You could buy them for a song in the late 60's and early 70's. People bought them - rehabbed them - and whole neighborhoods came back to life. It might even be easier in downtown JAX - because there is so much vacant land. At the right price for the land - you might see some nice relatively inexpensive townhouse/row house development (and the fact that the places would be new would be a plus because of homeowners' insurance problems in Florida). I sometimes mention high rise buildings - but I would pretty much reserve those for premium riverfront lots.
Perhaps some down zoning is in order (if some guy thinks he can build a 40 story office building on his ugly parking lot - he'll think it's worth a lot more money than if the property is restricted to low rise residential). Or if there are "taking" problems in rezoning - maybe condemnation on account of "blight". Or just fining people whose buildings are in disgustingly bad condition. I'm sure JAX has the means to do that - just like HOAs do.
On the flip side of Philadelphia - right across the river - there's Camden NJ - which was and still is a cesspool. It is basically Detroit - but smaller and worse. So what happens with Detroit may perhaps become a model for cities like Camden. I read about Detroit from time to time. The mayor seems like a good guy from a distance (IOW - realistic). I don't think that city can go much lower than it is now - and what happens with it might provide some guidance about how to deal (or not to deal) with places like it.
With no offense to my black friends here - I think one thing downtown JAX has going for it is it doesn't have a ton of really poor black people (or any other kind of poor people) living there. Because no one lives there! It wouldn't take much to get the homeless (who come in all flavors) out of downtown. And then you're dealing with a blank slate.
I do think the one thing we agree on 100% is that downtown development pretty much has to be bottom up - not top down. Who knows what the people here - as opposed to the pols - would do with downtown - if they had a chance?
And I have to second what mississippi magnolia has said about the schools. They have to get better - everywhere. None of this magnet schools are the only ok high schools - or we'll do away with everything before we cut out high school football. And if there is even a hint of residential development downtown - wouldn't hurt to build a new elementary school there (don't think there's one there now - could be wrong). Even here in the 'burbs - parents love schools that are close by - neighborhood schools. You need residential places that will attract younger people - but keep them when they have kids.
Joni Mitchell sang - "we paved Paradise and put up a parking lot". Doubt downtown JAX was ever a paradise - but it's time for the reverse IMO.
FWIW - when I'm thinking like this - I wish I had an aerial of downtown and could sketch what I think should go where. It wouldn't be a grand downtown - only an extremely modest version of a place like center city Philadelphia. But that's a heck of a lot better than what we have now. Robyn
P.S. We go downtown a lot less often than we used to. Because there's not a lot there. And my husband in particular thinks it's ugly and there are no good restaurants and hates it. My father and his girlfriend have a JSO subscription - but it's get on the bus - go to the concert - come home. Think the next to last time we were downtown was for the Gator Bowl Parade New Year's Eve. Liked the parade - but the best place we could find close by to have some food and drinks after was this:
Place had some pretty good beers on tap. Most ridiculous low end gin I ever saw. Food selections weren't tempting.
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Reality check time.
. Actually what got me thinking was these Republican developer types embracing Brown (cautiously). Reckon they figure he'll spread some taxpayer money around on another big deal "project to nowhere". (Note that this is just a hunch on my part.)
