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toured each area of potential interest(except atl beach) extensively, and my perceptions of these areas an what will and wouldn't work for me have changed somewhat.
1) Avondale- was leaning towards a 12-1300 sq ft bungalow type house in Avondale(which looks like they can be had for 190-230k)...something like this that sold recently:
the problem is these houses look a lot like shanties. yes a decently maintained shanty over the years. And shanties that are move in ready for the most part and livable. But a shanty nonetheless. And in driving up and down Hollywood avenue(and a few other Avondale streets where smaller houses are), you see the same thing- small houses that look even smaller than they are. And the neighborhood(and I mean on most of the streets with the small to medium sized houses not the river estates) is maintained and looks 'ok' aesthetically.....it doesn't look great. You don't see tons of trash, but it's certainly not posh. You see a ton of older cheap cars. And while you don't see yards that are completely neglected(like 2 foot high grass), you see mostly mediocre yards/shrubbery as well. Yes the very best Avondale homes have great looking huge oak trees, but those houses are well into the 7 figures. The houses you can buy for up to 500k or so don't have the same qualities in terms of natural beauty around them.
Then I wonder well why not spend a good bit more and get something nicer in Avondale?
This house looks much better, has nice interior, good curb appeal(unfortunately based on street view much better than the houses around it)....but 475k? Now I don't know that it will sell for every penny of that, but there are too many disadvantages with both it's location and the house itself to pay 475k(over 200 a sq ft) for it.
2) Riverside- was never really a contender in the first place, but just wanted to say I had dinner at kickbacks. Met a couple cool friendly people but the place was a dump. And in a bad area. Oh and the service was horrible. The food? Not the worst I've had, but certainly on the wrong side of average.
3) Ortega- I think I may be leaning towards here more(but still far from sold). Something like this house in particular would be ok maybe:
Larger yard, looks better than it's Avondale comps, as cheap, etc....one downside to buying one of the smaller and cheaper Ortega houses is resale I would think. Families with a kid are likely to stay away because of the schools. I don't give a flip what grade a school gets(because that's based on a lot of meaningless things like improvement...going from atrocious to below average will boost this score), but look at the reduced lunch numbers for the high school....no way parents in Ortega want to send their kid there. Which is fine if you're wealthy and buying a big spread on the river(just pick a good private school), but people buying a 300k house will be stretched thin with that in most cases.
4) San Marco- the houses out of my price range on river road are very nice looking. the rest? not so much. Also, there are a number of shanty looking houses in this area...practically within walking distance of the 7 figure houses on river road. And unlike the shanties in Avondale, these didn't even look well cared for. Now I don't know if this was technically san marco or not(I suspect it was), but it was definitely too close for comfort either way.
5) deerwood and deercreek country club- Interesting, but not really what I am looking for. One of these had houses that were nice but needed updating. Can't remember which one.
6) Jacksonville golf and country club- I liked it here. seemed a bit cheaper than the better clubs in PVB like Marsh Landing and the Plantation, and it's much closer to work as well. Looked at a house that wasn't obscenely big(2600 sq ft I think), all modern, good curb appeal, and was bordering golf course. I think it was like 460k. Same house in the plantation or Marsh Landing would probably be 600.
Right now, leaning towards Ortega I guess after a second look.
You certainly have an unique perspective.
Kickbacks is a dump & in a bad area? Deer Creek is interesting? The list goes on........
Kickbacks is a dump & in a bad area? Deer Creek is interesting? The list goes on........
Good luck.
I've never been to Kickbacks (I'm not a barfly). But the area where it's located is pretty crummy IMO. It borders on a light industrial area where a lighting supplier I use is located.
Is it the worst in the greater JAX area? No - far from it. Which is kind of a sad commentary in terms of the greater JAX area. Robyn
Kickbacks is most certainly in a bad area. I parked within easy walking distance of kickbacks(down a residential street across from the burger king), and most of the houses I parked around were some combination of vacant, dilapidated, or rentals in marginal shape. The businesses around kickbacks were not upscale establishments for the most part. Mostly lower end bars. The other side of the area has a run down industrial park feel. After I left I headed in the direction towards the BK(not sure what this is) and stopped at a convenience store which was open but you had to order outside through a window. This was at around midnight, and standing outside this convenience store while the guy helped me was an uncomfortable experience. One young homeless guy asked for money.
Now is it an area that could be described as terrifying? Worst of the worst? No. But relative to most places, bad is certainly a fair description.
The interior of the place is also run down and not nice. They were clearly in the process of some sort of renovations(so maybe that's why?)...for example sitting at the main side bar you couldn't even see the server because of the renovations....
Kickbacks is on King Street, of the exploding King Street commercial district. It's extremely popular with new venues opening regularly. In addition to the very nice Blind Fig restaurant bar (recently opened directly across the street from Kickbacks, among other many other businesses), there's a huge restaurant being built directly next to Kickbacks under construction now. Same owners as Kickbacks (Kickbacks is probably THE most popular bar in the entire city, no exaggeration), thus they are able to build new next door. The Silver Cow bar just opened down the street, and list goes on.
There is 1 bar that could hypothetically be considered lower end, Park Place, but the rest are clearly not. PP is average, not low end, at that.
There are some residential properties in that pocket that need maintenance here & there, including some unoccupied, but the majority do not. For a new construction house, which are rare in Riverside, within a couple blocks of where you parked, you'll pay $300k+.
I think you'd be happy somewhere far, far away in a suburban HOA. That way you'll probably avoid the "old cars" and "mediocre shrubs" that seem to bother you.
I second the others - rent for a period of time. Sounds like you may be thinking short as is 1-2 months. Think 7 (more common that 6, I think because 6 month lease may still require sales tax to be collected/added, 7 month+ does not) or 12. Jacksonville and the surrounding counties have pockets of unique areas, some which you'll love, some which you'll hate. You express a wide diversity of interests and expectations for a property. You'll find the ideal one, but don't rush it.
Rent, and explore the communities that interest you at your leisure. Take your top picks, and drive the morning and evening commutes. Drive the area after bad rains and see where the drainage issues may be (some will surprise you). Drive the day after trash pickup and see who's leaving cans out for half the week. Learn the local hang outs, check out the community's grocery stores... "Location, location, location" is SO true in real estate. Take your time and really learn the locations you think you're interested in before you commit. You'll end up happier with your purchase in the long run if you do. I've done this for each home purchase (and rental) I've made in the Jax area since the 1980s, and have crossed some areas off my list and found delightful new ones I didn't even know about using that approach.
Kickbacks is on King Street, of the exploding King Street commercial district. It's extremely popular with new venues opening regularly. In addition to the very nice Blind Fig restaurant bar (recently opened directly across the street from Kickbacks, among other many other businesses), there's a huge restaurant being built directly next to Kickbacks under construction now. Same owners as Kickbacks (Kickbacks is probably THE most popular bar in the entire city, no exaggeration), thus they are able to build new next door. The Silver Cow bar just opened down the street, and list goes on.
There is 1 bar that could hypothetically be considered lower end, Park Place, but the rest are clearly not. PP is average, not low end, at that.
There are some residential properties in that pocket that need maintenance here & there, including some unoccupied, but the majority do not. For a new construction house, which are rare in Riverside, within a couple blocks of where you parked, you'll pay $300k+.
I think you'd be happy somewhere far, far away in a suburban HOA. That way you'll probably avoid the "old cars" and "mediocre shrubs" that seem to bother you.
I wouldn't mind living at TPC, Marsh Landing, etc.....but not ready to make that sort of investment right now. Most suburban HOA's I wouldn't be interested in. I'm definitely not anti-city. I've lived in or near cities far more frequently than the suburbs, and given most scenarios would definitely prefer to do so.
I don't know the name of the bars and restaurants around the area, but I just wasn't impressed.
I will say that the shoppes of Avondale, which I did visit, were much nicer. Not the best little strip Ive ever seen or anything, but it did have a decent charm. So it's not as if I'm negative to any commercial activity in the whole jville area.
Kickbacks is on King Street, of the exploding King Street commercial district. It's extremely popular with new venues opening regularly. In addition to the very nice Blind Fig restaurant bar (recently opened directly across the street from Kickbacks, among other many other businesses), there's a huge restaurant being built directly next to Kickbacks under construction now. Same owners as Kickbacks (Kickbacks is probably THE most popular bar in the entire city, no exaggeration), thus they are able to build new next door. The Silver Cow bar just opened down the street, and list goes on.
There is 1 bar that could hypothetically be considered lower end, Park Place, but the rest are clearly not. PP is average, not low end, at that.
There are some residential properties in that pocket that need maintenance here & there, including some unoccupied, but the majority do not. For a new construction house, which are rare in Riverside, within a couple blocks of where you parked, you'll pay $300k+.
I think you'd be happy somewhere far, far away in a suburban HOA. That way you'll probably avoid the "old cars" and "mediocre shrubs" that seem to bother you.
Some observations from someone who has been here for a while.
I'd call that general part of town - which doesn't have a name - "north" Riverside/Avondale (as opposed to the parts of Riverside/Avondale near the river). The area has been been hyped as "up and coming" since we moved here in 1995. But it has never really arrived IMO.
Note that some previous efforts to improve the tone of the area in general were more ambitious. Like West River. Which had Liz Grenamyer in the kitchen and offered things like an excellent $75/head 5 course wine/jazz dinner featuring the music of the Noel Friedline Quartet. We went to that dinner not only because it seemed great - but because it happened to take place on our 25th anniversary .* Noel Friedline went on to bigger and better things (including a gig at the Bellagio in Las Vegas) and Liz Grenamyer is still around. But - alas - West River (and many restaurants that had similarly lofty aspirations) aren't.
Also - how is a loud like you say "popular" bar (that apparently serves large portions of cheap food - which is what most people in JAX seem to want) that's open from 7 am to 3 am - and doesn't have a parking lot - consistent with the notion of a nice residential area? Homeowners in the area have been complaining about parking problems for years - and I doubt the 33 parking spaces that are being built for the Kickbacks expansion will do anything to improve the situation:
After all - tacosman is looking for a place to live - not a place to drink. Robyn
*I keep menus of memorable meals - and that is the best meal I have ever had in this area. Even today - almost 18 years later - well the dishes were creative in a "new Southern" kind of way and well executed - the wine pairings were - and the music was fantastic.
Some observations from someone who has been here for a while.
I'd call that general part of town - which doesn't have a name - "north" Riverside/Avondale (as opposed to the parts of Riverside/Avondale near the river). The area has been been hyped as "up and coming" since we moved here in 1995. But it has never really arrived IMO.
Note that some previous efforts to improve the tone of the area in general were more ambitious. Like West River. Which had Liz Grenamyer in the kitchen and offered things like an excellent $75/head 5 course wine/jazz dinner featuring the music of the Noel Friedline Quartet. We went to that dinner not only because it seemed great - but because it happened to take place on our 25th anniversary .* Noel Friedline went on to bigger and better things (including a gig at the Bellagio in Las Vegas) and Liz Grenamyer is still around. But - alas - West River (and many restaurants that had similarly lofty aspirations) aren't.
Also - how is a loud like you say "popular" bar (that apparently serves large portions of cheap food - which is what most people in JAX seem to want) that's open from 7 am to 3 am - and doesn't have a parking lot - consistent with the notion of a nice residential area? Homeowners in the area have been complaining about parking problems for years - and I doubt the 33 parking spaces that are being built for the Kickbacks expansion will do anything to improve the situation:
After all - tacosman is looking for a place to live - not a place to drink. Robyn
*I keep menus of memorable meals - and that is the best meal I have ever had in this area. Even today - almost 18 years later - well the dishes were creative in a "new Southern" kind of way and well executed - the wine pairings were - and the music was fantastic.
I will say that the place had a few things going for it....if I were 7-10 years younger, I suspect I would like it. The people(the servers were terrible) eating and drinking at the restaurant were incredibly friendly, and one young women saw me waiting for my food at the bar and just spontaneously offered me a few of her appetizers. I can't say for sure, but I suspect that level of friendliness towards strangers is not that uncommon there. That said, I'm kind of a keep to myself guy so was a bit taken aback. Also, the food was pretty good. Not great, but by bar food standards good.
I didn't get this 'young professional' vibe FSU is always talking about though, unless one has a very lenient definition for professional. There was also more of a tattooed element than I would prefer....guys much younger than me with a whole sleeve of tattoos. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but I don't know how well I would fit in.
Robyn, you can always be counted on to chime on areas which you're not familiar with. One example, King Street district is one of the major hubs of the Riverside & Avondale historic district. It's in no way "north Riverside", and it's far, far past up & coming.
For anyone younger than 50, it has long since arrived.
As indicated in the article I linked.
Tacosman, please listen to Robin's advice. You two share the same strange uniformed perspective.
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.* Noel Friedline went on to bigger and better things (including a gig at the Bellagio in Las Vegas) and Liz Grenamyer is still around. But - alas - West River (and many restaurants that had similarly lofty aspirations) aren't.
- and the music was fantastic.
