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I would like to get some feedback on schools, preferably from parents, teachers or students. I will be visiting the area in August and would really appreciate some personal reports from those in the know. Specifically, how do Duval magnets, privates, such as Bolles or Episcopal and publics in St John's County compare?? Can you even compare them?? I'm hoping for some insight that could help me understand the school culture/ environment at these places. What do these schools value, and do they walk the talk? Did your kids thrive or wither at any of these places? Did you have different learners at different schools?? All of this would be super helpful to hear about.
Middle school & high school focus would be especially helpful, although I'm grateful for elementary info. too. How would you "rate" the schools based on the following criteria:
high standards of academics, athletics and behavior
decent student/teacher ratio
good college guidance/preparation
emphasis on subject mastery vs. test mastery
faculty & student diversity (by this I mean primarily socio-economic, ethnic/racial)
or any other factors you found "great" or not
Just as a caveat, I am interested in diversity b/c of the cognitive/social benefits. In my research, and parenting, I have found that "identity diversity" correlates very strongly with "cognitive diversity." Without launching an academic treatise, I want my kids around a diverse population to stretch their thinking and problem-solving skills, not just to make them more "open-minded" or "tolerant." I hope this doesn't sound grotesquely cynical? Of course I care about increased empathy & tolerance, but regrettably the "science" on this is a bit fuzzy. Just felt like I needed to qualify this factor, so that we can kinda stay on topic
I think the problem you're going to run into - not only in this area - but in most of Florida - and perhaps the whole country - is that there's an inverse correlation between "diversity" (as most people define it) and academic excellence. The greater the number of lower income no-white students - the worse a school is likely to be in terms of things like academic achievement. Here's the public high school your kids would attend if you lived where I live. It's considered a pretty good school - but is about as "non-diverse" as they come:
But you're not going to like the academic picture.
BTW - the best way to find socio-economic "diversity" IMO is to look at the % of students eligible for free lunches.
Also - teachers here just about everywhere "teach to the test" (the FCAT). Although some people think that "teaching to the test" might decline once the Common Core curriculum is implemented fully:
I think the problem you're going to run into - not only in this area - but in most of Florida - and perhaps the whole country - is that there's an inverse correlation between "diversity" (as most people define it) and academic excellence. The greater the number of lower income no-white students - the worse a school is likely to be in terms of things like academic achievement. Here's the public high school your kids would attend if you lived where I live. It's considered a pretty good school - but is about as "non-diverse" as they come:
But you're not going to like the academic picture.
BTW - the best way to find socio-economic "diversity" IMO is to look at the % of students eligible for free lunches.
Also - teachers here just about everywhere "teach to the test" (the FCAT). Although some people think that "teaching to the test" might decline once the Common Core curriculum is implemented fully:
I think what you're trying to find is pretty much impossible. But - since it's important to you - you can keep trying. Robyn
I think you've missed the picture. Diversity is not the main criterion, just one factor, which I included, b/c it does weigh-in. I find other factors way more important and relevant. For reference, I have worked and conducted research in schools where the free lunch program enrollment was about 80%. The faculty and the "school culture" were phenomenal and I would have sent my child (had I had one at the time) to this school, with no hesitation, even though by definition it's not diverse b/c 80% of the students qualify for free lunches!!! Similarly, I don't care if every color in the rainbow is represented or not.
I don't want a "diverse" school per se, but rather a school that understands and appreciates the task to educate students. This cannot be done successfully without acknowledging the advantages of many things, including "diversity." If I had added "fully-implemented IT curricula" to my list, would I get the same response? Dunno, but what I do know, is that IT programs do not necessarily improve/positively impact student learning to the same extent that a diverse student population does.
I also know that schools teach to tests, but some do it without sacrificing mastery of skills and understanding of content.
I know that what I want is not impossible, but perhaps it's impossible in Jacksonville? You're totally over-emphasizing the "diversity" element here; I want personal feedback on schools, nothing more.
I think you've missed the picture. Diversity is not the main criterion, just one factor, which I included, b/c it does weigh-in. I find other factors way more important and relevant. For reference, I have worked and conducted research in schools where the free lunch program enrollment was about 80%. The faculty and the "school culture" were phenomenal and I would have sent my child (had I had one at the time) to this school, with no hesitation, even though by definition it's not diverse b/c 80% of the students qualify for free lunches!!! Similarly, I don't care if every color in the rainbow is represented or not.
I don't want a "diverse" school per se, but rather a school that understands and appreciates the task to educate students. This cannot be done successfully without acknowledging the advantages of many things, including "diversity." If I had added "fully-implemented IT curricula" to my list, would I get the same response? Dunno, but what I do know, is that IT programs do not necessarily improve/positively impact student learning to the same extent that a diverse student population does.
I also know that schools teach to tests, but some do it without sacrificing mastery of skills and understanding of content.
I know that what I want is not impossible, but perhaps it's impossible in Jacksonville? You're totally over-emphasizing the "diversity" element here; I want personal feedback on schools, nothing more.
So now you're blurring the picture. And diversity isn't important?
Keep in mind that the county where I live - St. Johns County - is known for good schools - but only in the parts that are basically upper middle class and white. People who live/move here don't want to send their kids to schools in poorer parts of the county where the kids are lower income and black or brown (and we have areas like that - the SW part of the county is pretty much agricultural and has a lot of migrant farm workers).
And you will IMO never get an honest answer from a parent here - except perhaps in a private message. Because it's so non-politically correct to say something like I don't want my kids to go to school with poor black kids these days. IMO people in Europe are more openly intolerant socio-economically and racially then here in the US. Which is why right wing parties/voters are sprouting up like mushrooms there. I mean I can't imagine any middle or higher class German family in Berlin trying to find schools where its kids would wind up in public schools with lots of poor Turkish students (or any middle class or higher class family from elsewhere either - we have acquaintances in Berlin from places as diverse as Australia and India).
Best I can figure out - the kind of place you're looking for is a high end private school with some scholarship students added for "diversity". A place where people can send their kids for excellent educations. Where they can "talk the talk" but don't have to "walk the walk" in terms of true diversity (and all that entails). Best here would be Bolles. In other parts of the US - it would be other schools. LIke Sidwell near DC - Ransom Everglades in Miami - etc.
All public schools in Florida and elsewhere are more or less tethered to their school districts. In terms of what's taught - and how it's taught. Only variable is the quality of the student body (the whiter and more affluent the better in terms of achievement - and vice versa). There are some writers I respect who say that one can predict FCAT scores in a particular school almost 100% on the basis of the demographics in the school. And I agree with them. Robyn
Not usually the case but I have to agree with everything Robyn has to say on this one. Sorry.
Well there are some things that are simply true - and not matters of opinion. The whiter and higher income a school in Florida is - the better it is in terms of academics. Not necessarily 100% - but about 98%. FWIW - here in SJC - I don't think we have great schools (like all our teachers are fabulous). We have whiter and higher income schools. We have some schools in poorer and blacker and browner areas that are D schools. Robyn
So now you're blurring the picture. And diversity isn't important?
Oh good grief, I haven't blurred anything. It doesn't look like anyone has actually read the post. I have asked a series of simple questions directed at students/parents/teachers and listed a brief list of factors for them to judge. That's it. I even went as far as to qualify my reasons for including diversity (bottom of the list, in case you didn't notice) so that we "can stay on topic" and not digress on the meaning/relevance yada, yada, yada of this term. I hope that someone will respond who has a bit of info. to share, but it looks like they won't even know what the post is about b/c they'll read this discourse on "tolerance" and "right-wing" and whateva else you go on about.
Quote:
Keep in mind that the county where I live - St. Johns County - is known for good schools - but only in the parts that are basically upper middle class and white. People who live/move here don't want to send their kids to schools in poorer parts of the county where the kids are lower income and black or brown (and we have areas like that - the SW part of the county is pretty much agricultural and has a lot of migrant farm workers).
Yeah, so what's with these "A" rated schools that's makes them so good?? The teachers, the variety of classes, the cafeteria?? I don't want to send my kids to the "poorer part" of anywhere. I wrote in my OP "magnets, private, public SJC" and I was referring to the "good schools" in SJC (never mentioned wanting any feedback on Duval public). What you mention about the SW of the county is interesting, b/c the high schools serving this area still get "A" ratings, or is my info. wrong?
Quote:
And you will IMO never get an honest answer from a parent here - except perhaps in a private message. Because it's so non-politically correct to say something like I don't want my kids to go to school with poor black kids these days.
I think honest posts have already been written on the subject of school quality. And that's what I'm looking for, just more recent posts. BTW the poster/thread that you suggested I read, wrote a really good summary of his experience at Episcopal High, it's just a bit dated. Maybe there are others, who can share their viewpoints about what they like/don't like about their school. You say you have neighbors whose children attend Bolles, would they care to contact me?
Quote:
IMO people in Europe are more openly intolerant socio-economically and racially then here in the US. Which is why right wing parties/voters are sprouting up like mushrooms there. I mean I can't imagine any middle or higher class German family in Berlin trying to find schools where its kids would wind up in public schools with lots of poor Turkish students (or any middle class or higher class family from elsewhere either - we have acquaintances in Berlin from places as diverse as Australia and India).
Europe is not a union and never has been, and no one will convince me otherwise, so one can't really say "Europe" this or that. I do however, wholeheartedly agree with your observations WRT overt intolerance. The right wing parties are everywhere - they always have been- but you ironically chose a very cosmopolitan and diverse city to make your point. There are a number of international schools in Berlin, which are very popular with the "middle/high" class folks you mention, b/c they have a good reputation for successfully educating their student populations in ENGLISH; this is important to many middle/upper class folks. Their student populations are racial/ethnic/religious -ly diverse, but there's not much in the way of socio-economic differences or cognitive differences. Some good ones and some bad, depends on the kid/learner and what the "ultimate goals" are. Some schools even have indexed tuition to increase socio-economic diversity, but the "poorer" students are generally the "brighter lights" (what they don't have in their pockets, they make up for with what's btw their ears). Trust me on this one, "upper class" Berliners love "curated" diversity in their schools, and if that entails cherry-picking a couple of "poor Turkish" kids to throw in the mix, so be it. It makes 'em feel good and it makes 'em more like their "sartorial," "artisanal-micro-brew-drinking" compatriots from Brooklyn.
So, back to the drawing board. If you have a kid, are a kid, or teach kids (in the schools mentioned in the post title) and you have, like 10 min., would you please give me some feedback on your school. Some of you moved here for the schools, was it worth it, why/why not? Are the teachers good? What are your classmates like? Ever change schools? Why do so many kids end up at FL universities? Bright Futures?
If you don't qualify as "kid" "parent" or "teacher," with relevant experience, pls. save your wisdom for others, or start your own post and pls. don't hijack mine.
Robyn, this is YOUR issue about diversity. Don't assume others have your issues - they don't!
Note, Robyn: alpineannie said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpineannie
I have asked a series of simple questions directed at students/parents/teachers and listed a brief list of factors for them to judge. That's it. I even went as far as to qualify my reasons for including diversity (bottom of the list, in case you didn't notice) so that we "can stay on topic"
Alpineannie, we get what you're saying and asking!
Oh and I'd love to read more about Episcopal also - alpine, can you direct me to that thread? Also, Bolles. Just for future reference.
Interestingly, I have two German friends from Berlin. The first was educated in English in an international school there. She married an American, lived in the US for years, now they live in Israel (and they are not Jewish). The second was also educated in an international school, she married a Turkish man, and they now live in the US.
Good questions, hope someone can help alpineannie here...
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpineannie
So, back to the drawing board. If you have a kid, are a kid, or teach kids (in the schools mentioned in the post title) and you have, like 10 min., would you please give me some feedback on your school. Some of you moved here for the schools, was it worth it, why/why not? Are the teachers good? What are your classmates like? Ever change schools? Why do so many kids end up at FL universities? Bright Futures?
If you don't qualify as "kid" "parent" or "teacher," with relevant experience, pls. save your wisdom for others, or start your own post and pls. don't hijack mine.
Last edited by snuffybear; 06-12-2014 at 07:02 AM..
Alpineannie, what state are you coming from? Just wondering in terms of comparison of school systems.
I've heard people in Ponte Vedra (PVHS and Nease) are happy with the public schools and many have taken their kids out of $$ private schools like Bolles. Bolles does send many kids to selective/highly selective colleges, but PVHS/Nease do also. However, sometimes I think they GET IN to highly selective colleges out-of-state, but then choose to stay in state because of Bright Futures. Private school families probably have more of a private/small college preference, so more will go to those colleges. And Bolles might be more demanding. I really don't have a handle on how demanding PVHS and Nease are, other than they ARE showing up very high on US News and World Report rankings, which are largely driven by #AP (or IB) classes per graduate.
I think the kids are growing up in an excellent area, and I hope that means well-mannered, balanced, NICE kids that appreciate their lot in life and want to do good in the world....vs entitled brats. I have my fingers crossed it will be the former, because I really want my kids to meet NICE, motivated, grounded kids.
Any insights welcome. Also, as far as the school, are most teachers nice/reasonable? Is there too much homework or a reasonable amount in middle and high school? How about other issues like drinking, drugs, etc - easy to avoid or prevalent?
ETA: Does anyone know where to get the list of colleges the graduates from PVHS and Nease are attending? Past years or this years (probably not out yet).
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