SJC schools and ESE--which school and area is best for autism? (taxes, special education)

[Robyn55]

Originally Posted by GabbaJDC

Thank you Ivan, I'm glad to hear that your neighbor found a good fit for their child at Ocean Palms. I'll definitely add that to my list of schools to visit. Thanks!

Robyn, since an appropriate public education is a fundamental American right for all children regardless of their ability or the family's financial status, maybe the county should look into other ways of bringing in revenue if funding is an issue. Does SJC charge an impact fee on the new construction homes? How about bringing bigger better retailers to SJC to generate more sales tax within the county along with the new half cent tax hike? (How about a Target along the 210 corridor? It seems like the nearest Target stores for the Julington, Durbin, Cimarrone, and Nocatee residents are all in Duval county. That's a lot of money going to Duval that could be going to SJC.)

At any rate, it's unacceptable to basically tell families of children with special needs to just go figure it out on their own. These kids matter just as much as anyone else and they can make great contributions to society.

Well - we do have pretty steep impact fees already. Over $13,000 on single family houses that are > 1800 sf:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...BXCsNkE8uV_7tw

Last time the issue came up - the county raised impact fees on residential construction and lowered them on commercial construction (which made sense IMO).

When it comes to retailers - you've mentioned communities in several different areas. Julington Creek Plantation is very close to Mandarin - which already has lots of retailers. Nocatee doesn't have enough people yet to support lots of retailers. Don't know the "head count" in the 210 area. Whether it would support any "big box" retailers. But I suspect some local residents - who are already disturbed by the increasingly bad traffic there - might object. In any event - although it's possible to keep retailers out - it's not possible to force them to come to any particular place. Also - as more and more of us do more and more of our shopping on line (the only thing I bought at a bricks and mortar place this weekend was plants - everything else was on line) - I don't think the presence of more physical stores will have that much of an impact.

Ultimately - the only way to raise substantial amounts of money for schools here is increasing property taxes by raising millage rates. But no one seems to be enthusiastic about that (it's a case of "don't tax you - don't tax me - tax the guy behind the tree").

FWIW - there is no fundamental American right to public education (#2/#1 largest state spending cost) - at least in a strict legal sense:

Why Doesn't the Constitution Guarantee the Right to Education? - The Atlantic

Just like there isn't a fundamental right to health care/Medicaid (#1/#2 largest state spending cost). Or a right to be safe ("protection" - things like police and fire services - prisons - etc.) are a large state budget item. Instead - there are - at most - certain (state and federal) laws that mandate X/Y/Z. In general. With no strict guidelines. Or details about how to pay for them (they are unfunded mandates). And the state - which has limited funds - has to juggle all the competing interests and come up with something that works best overall. Which means that not everyone with specific wants/needs (especially if they're expensive) - no matter what they are - is going to be happy. Juggling all the competing interests is especially difficult in a state like Florida - where approximately 5% of all residents are illegal immigrants (many of whom do not speak English). I honestly don't think there's enough money in the world to pay for everything people want. So - in the end - it's all about coming up with the best ways to allocate a finite amount of resources. Robyn

[snuffybear]

Special Education is not an unfunded mandate. It is federally funded and I believe state and locally as well.

And the "right to a free and appropriate education for all students" is in the federal law and applies to all students, including special ed.

Robyn, your article does not address the fact that the right to education is guaranteed by all 50 states.
Read the comments under the article, e.g.,


Education is a state and local matter. What's more, every state constitution has a provision for education.http://camlaw.rutgers.edu/stat...

From the earliest days of the republic, some state constitutions have singled out education, sometimes alone among the many important services provided by state government, as worthy of special recognition. Today, every state constitution contains an education provision.

It appears that Lurie is unaware that the United States has 51 Constitutions, 50 of them have some substantial provision for education, and a majority of these frame education as a fundamental right.



The article touches on the reason (without saying it) that the US Dept of Ed is concocting this "Common Core", basically because we rank "low" compared to some countries (where, btw, the school systems run differently and there are often different tracks, with kids on lower tracks dropping out before HS). I.e., comparisons are not apples-to-apples.

And "Common Core" has NOT gone smoothly and there is little value added to this approach, and a lot of bureacracy and testing, testing, testing. This is really a topic for the Education forum, if you're interested, go debate it there.

[Robyn55]

Originally Posted by snuffybear

Special Education is not an unfunded mandate. It is federally funded and I believe state and locally as well...

If "special education" was 100% funded - this wouldn't have popped up when I logged into Google today.

https://google.org/impactchallenge/d...rs-choose.html

BTW - I think all education is "special". Why should an autistic kid get a more expensive/personalized learning environment than a gifted/genius kid? Or a normal kid?

FWIW - I have a friend who teaches the worst off kids. Those who are profoundly retarded - severely brain damaged - they often have horrible physical disabilities as well - etc. They cost $30k+/year - can stay in school until they're 21 - and the best they're ever going to wind up is perhaps being toilet trained. Their families are often low income - not well educated - and not especially interested in these kids. I pretty much think this spending is a waste of money - and argue about it with my friend (who has no illusions about the kids she's teaching). My friend basically thinks her kids - the worst off - deserve the "max" - even more than we spend on them now - even if it means we have to cut back on spending on all other kinds of kids. I guess various people all argue for their own interests/constituencies. Robyn

[Robyn55]

Originally Posted by GabbaJDC

...At any rate, it's unacceptable to basically tell families of children with special needs to just go figure it out on their own. These kids matter just as much as anyone else and they can make great contributions to society.

I'm not sure what you mean by your first sentence - "figuring it out on your own"? What do you mean? We ask people who are 85 to pick out their Medicare Plans once a year (like now). Many don't even have computers. And many often have some degree of dementia.

The worst "special education" kids will never even develop the skills to work as baggers at Publix. Like I said - many my friend teaches aren't even toilet trained as teenagers. They will go from institution like schools to adult living institutional facilities. I don't think we should throw these kids/young adults out on the street into the ranks of the homeless. But to spend lots of scarce education dollars on them is just kind of a waste of money IMO. Better to spend the money on decent places where they can live and be taken care of. Robyn

[snuffybear]

I didn't say 100% funded. And yes, all snowflakes are special. But it does cost more to educate some students, that's reality and not limited to special ed. Go fight the Dept of Ed...and good luck (ha!).

There is a huge range of special education...go post on the Education board and argue with the posters there.

[GabbaJDC]

Robyn, I can't even respond to you anymore without being a total b-word, so I'm just gonna keep it classy and say "thanks for your input."

Snuffybear, I am truly thankful that there are people like you who understand. Thank you.

[snuffybear]

Yep, showing her true colors in this thread!

No problem Gabba, there nice, educated, normal people around here who care. <3

[Hellokitty4]

I often feel so exhausted after reading Robyn's posts. Maybe it is because I cringe so much!

Snuffybear, thanks for your thoughtful responses.

GabbaJDC, I think you got some good info from others. My little one attended two prek programs in St. Johns county (we moved after the first year). I was happy with both schools. I felt that teachers and staff worked hard, and they were wonderful with kids. If you have any specific questions, feel free to PM me. Good luck!

[GabbaJDC]

Thanks you guys, I'm really glad to hear that the schools care about their ESE students. It's hard enough sending your nonverbal toddler to preschool.....but moving across the country to somewhere I've never been (hubby's job is relocating us to Jax) adds another layer of stress to the whole situation. But I'm feeling better knowing that other parents have had positive experiences. I hope we find the right fit for our little guy too.

[Robyn55]

Perhaps you think I'm a bit** - but I have my head screwed on straight and know the mood of taxpayers here.

How many of you current residents of SJC would vote for someone who would double your property taxes to pay for ESE students - or anything else here? Disabled/impoverished seniors? Wounded veterans? Sidewalks? How many of you would pay even 25% more - for anything?

Raise your hands. I for one would not. Talk (especially on chat boards) is cheap/free. All warm and fuzzy. But doesn't translate into turning out votes for politicians who want to raise taxes. Robyn