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Hi, I was thinking of making the move to Jacksonville for a more affordable life. We three children and would rather spend time with them growing up then both of us working crazy hours to live a middle class lifestyle. Two quick questions.
1. Is Jacksonville a nice place to live for a young family? Good schools and fun thing like parks and museums. We are thinking about Beach areas ,Riverside, or St johns in general.
2. We would also be moving to invest in real estate but would not need to live in our investments. Would it be worth buying close to downtown like the Springfield area or buying property in the downtown? Coming from LA where the downtown has gone from a homeless epicenter where you don't walk at night to 1 bedrooms apartments fetching 500k, I can see downtowns turning around. I've read some threads on this site. Is all hope lost for your downtown or will that Khan guy help turn it around?
Hi, I was thinking of making the move to Jacksonville for a more affordable life. We three children and would rather spend time with them growing up then both of us working crazy hours to live a middle class lifestyle. Two quick questions.
1. Is Jacksonville a nice place to live for a young family? Good schools and fun thing like parks and museums. We are thinking about Beach areas ,Riverside, or St johns in general.
2. We would also be moving to invest in real estate but would not need to live in our investments. Would it be worth buying close to downtown like the Springfield area or buying property in the downtown? Coming from LA where the downtown has gone from a homeless epicenter where you don't walk at night to 1 bedrooms apartments fetching 500k, I can see downtowns turning around. I've read some threads on this site. Is all hope lost for your downtown or will that Khan guy help turn it around?
First Jacksonville is the largest land mass city in the US, so there is a little bit of everything. Those areas you mentioned go from Urban to Beach life, Rural to Suburban. Riverside was voted one of the most walkable areas in the US. A lot of young people live there. There is even a Riverside Arts market. So you can actually walk to a park, a museum and even 4 Point shopping center. St. Johns is very different. Well first it is an entire county and very spread out. In general this is where more and more upper middle income folks move to. Don't get me wrong lots of upper middle income folks in Jax also. I guess i would have to ask you questions first like are you looking to move into a community or be more rural. Do you want to be near the beach and work and if near work where do you work at. Do you want to be in a gated community and be part of a fancy HOA and have lots of amenities like a splash pool and pay CCD fees. St. Johns has some of the best schools in the nation.
I am a real estate investor also. Again that would take a lot of writing to answer. I know people that live downtown. I am not sure why those are the areas you wish to invest in. Maybe you think they are up and coming. But you can invest anywhere in Jax. I have rentals in Mandarin, East Arlington, Orange Park and so forth. It is all about the numbers. You might find this article of interest:
First Jacksonville is the largest land mass city in the US, so there is a little bit of everything. Those areas you mentioned go from Urban to Beach life, Rural to Suburban. Riverside was voted one of the most walkable areas in the US. A lot of young people live there. There is even a Riverside Arts market. So you can actually walk to a park, a museum and even 4 Point shopping center. St. Johns is very different. Well first it is an entire county and very spread out. In general this is where more and more upper middle income folks move to. Don't get me wrong lots of upper middle income folks in Jax also. I guess i would have to ask you questions first like are you looking to move into a community or be more rural. Do you want to be near the beach and work and if near work where do you work at. Do you want to be in a gated community and be part of a fancy HOA and have lots of amenities like a splash pool and pay CCD fees. St. Johns has some of the best schools in the nation.
I am a real estate investor also. Again that would take a lot of writing to answer. I know people that live downtown. I am not sure why those are the areas you wish to invest in. Maybe you think they are up and coming. But you can invest anywhere in Jax. I have rentals in Mandarin, East Arlington, Orange Park and so forth. It is all about the numbers. You might find this article of interest:
Thanks for the response. Great article. I will be visiting Jacksonville this summer. Moving next summer. I still have to finish a flip and find work out there if we decide to move.
With big players in the market how are you finding deals or are you typically buying the rentals fixed up and rented? What kind of cap rate and Cash on Cash are the standards for the areas you invest? I do not want to do any more flips just buy and hold. Was looking at downtown and Springfield because the rent looks like they have room to grow if the area becomes more gentrified. Does the city not support downtown development? Is it better to get returns in the suburbs? Would love any insight from a local.
We are looking for a community, I grew up knowing all my neighbors and still have dinner parties once a month now as an adult, but we are not gated community people. Maybe because I am not familiar with gated communities the only area those are big around us is Orange county. We will probably end up near the beaches because I do not think my wife will want to move to FL unless we are on still on the beach. I read the other threads and Ponte Vedra seems like good area for us to look as long as the schools are good for the children and there are things for them to do (all under 5). We like to surf, ride bikes, hike, run, golf etc.
I do not view the big players as competition. Personally I think if the market were to go South they would go belly up. They bought tons of foreclosure that were at better prices than the bubble days but not bargains. Bargains are much harder to come by and that is what I buy and believe me there are lots of people bidding on those. I do not do flips. I buy rehab and hold.
I only know what cap rate I look for. And I do my own calculations to determine it. I would not trust anyone else’s numbers.
I do not rehab in downtown or Springfield so I cannot answer that. I do not get involved in anything historic or very old were I have to worry about wiring and old cast iron plumbing and etc. I did that when I lived in Baltimore and no more.
I also don’t do St John’s county. Do not get me wrong I have tried, but with the high HOAs and property taxes I have never been able to get my cap rate. Maybe if you are willing to accept a lower cap rate.
There is a lot of rehabs going on all over the place. Arlington is getting a lot of renovation. You just have to come down and see for yourself. I will say properties are not as attractively priced right now as pending sales is hitting all time recent highs.
But the good thing is if you look at people moving. People are leaving NE and CA and all heading to Florida.
There is a HUGH Jacksonville Real-estate Club so check it out. JaxREIA-HOME
On the other topic if you want to be close to the beach that rules out Riverside. Ponte Vedra is very upscale. Medium Household Income is around $150K. You can read the other thread about Ponte Vedra Beach lifestyle to get an idea. That is where Robyn lives. Some might say country club people.
The best thing is just come down and plan to rent at first, and then explore all the areas. Nocatee is a HUGH planned community development in St. Johns. Check it out. You might love it or hate it. My dentist lives there and you could certainly socialize with the neighbors at their water park.
Thanks for the response. Great article. I will be visiting Jacksonville this summer. Moving next summer. I still have to finish a flip and find work out there if we decide to move.
With big players in the market how are you finding deals or are you typically buying the rentals fixed up and rented? What kind of cap rate and Cash on Cash are the standards for the areas you invest? I do not want to do any more flips just buy and hold. Was looking at downtown and Springfield because the rent looks like they have room to grow if the area becomes more gentrified. Does the city not support downtown development? Is it better to get returns in the suburbs? Would love any insight from a local.
We are looking for a community, I grew up knowing all my neighbors and still have dinner parties once a month now as an adult, but we are not gated community people. Maybe because I am not familiar with gated communities the only area those are big around us is Orange county. We will probably end up near the beaches because I do not think my wife will want to move to FL unless we are on still on the beach. I read the other threads and Ponte Vedra seems like good area for us to look as long as the schools are good for the children and there are things for them to do (all under 5). We like to surf, ride bikes, hike, run, golf etc.
On the beach here is still expensive. The insurance costs alone make California beaches not so far apart price wise unless you're talking Malibu, Newport or La Jolla.
If you're looking to be a few blocks from the beach I can tell you that people are paying $600K-$800K for tear downs in Atlantic Beach. I bought my house in Atlantic Beach before the large run up in cost. I buy and hold and don't rent. I just sold my long time home in Brentwood for north of $4M which I bought in the mid 70's.
The other factor is the difference in weather. The humidity is really different than California. You should experience that before considering settling in here.
Hi, I was thinking of making the move to Jacksonville for a more affordable life. We three children and would rather spend time with them growing up then both of us working crazy hours to live a middle class lifestyle. Two quick questions.
1. Is Jacksonville a nice place to live for a young family? Good schools and fun thing like parks and museums. We are thinking about Beach areas ,Riverside, or St johns in general.
2. We would also be moving to invest in real estate but would not need to live in our investments. Would it be worth buying close to downtown like the Springfield area or buying property in the downtown? Coming from LA where the downtown has gone from a homeless epicenter where you don't walk at night to 1 bedrooms apartments fetching 500k, I can see downtowns turning around. I've read some threads on this site. Is all hope lost for your downtown or will that Khan guy help turn it around?
1. I think so. It's all the small side so fun city amenities like parks and museums will get old fairly quickly, and the schools thing is an oft-debated issue (suburban counties have much better schools, but the main county of Duval has excellent magnets and private schools so depends) but at the same time it's a decent place for a young family and when you factor the low COL (which allows more disposable income) it can be quite nice.
2. I actually invest heavily in the urban core. It's my company's bread and butter. I do occasionally stray to other parts of the city and I also consult with a hedge fund that buys all over so I have some awareness of the metro as a whole. That said, my answer to you is definitely NO on downtown proper. A cautious maybe on Springfield. I actually can see Springfield booming in the next few years, I'd put the odds at around 50/50, but it's a very tricky neighborhood. Even if it booms you may not yield the benefits. The property prices are all over the place (some sellers are delusional) and some of the homes are in such horrid condition that you may just be burning your money. On top of that this is a historic district with actual teeth that can deny any exterior alterations...a lot of potential headaches. Ohhh, but the houses are so charming and it has incredible potential. Anyway, definitely a neighborhood to consider but it is tricky.
Somewhere else you asked about numbers...we see around 8-10% CAP and c-o-c could be extremely good but we don't (or at least haven't) leveraged anything in the traditional sense. We have some loans but we use those all for flips. All fairly modest numbers. The key for us has been significant appreciation in Murray Hill.
In Jax there are some D areas a step above "war zone" where you could get as much as 25-30% gross return. But that probably evens back out in the long run when major repairs come up and higher tenant turnover.
Good luck! Jax REIA is large as mentioned above, as is the Jax REIM meetup group (which is free!)
Jacksonville is fun, but it doesn't have the amenities that a typical California beach city has. The museums here are ok, but the children can get bored pretty quickly. There are outdoor festivals here, but the summer humidity can turn you into a cave dweller. Sports fans can enjoy the worst NFL team in the world here, and there's always a professional soccer team and watching a sport in the autumn sun is not a bad way to spend an afternoon.
The beaches here are warm! The water isn't particularly pretty, but it is nice to float in water so cozy it feels like a bathtub and there are shells to collect and shark teeth to find. The schools in St Johns county are generally better than Duval, but Duval county schools have their gems and there are some interesting magnet programs. In some ways, Duval has had to be more innovative with its schools, in St. Johns you are going to get a good, standard education, but in Duval you could go to a montessori magnet, or a high school with a computer gaming design program.
i also find that there's a strong sense of neighborliness here. the first week we moved into our house, our neighbors held a block party (pre-planned, it wasn't in our honor--hah) and kids are always running in and out of everyone's houses and when it's cool in the evening, everyone comes out to chat and watch the kids run amok. You will know your neighbors and they will be happy to help you out in a pinch. I think that may be a combination of southern hospitality, the amount of transplants looking for exactly what you are, and a by product of there being so many kids.
To us, being that wife and I have both lived in Orange County, California, close to the beach (Costa Mesa and Huntington Beach), the beaches in So Cal are much prettier/nicer than here. Even the L.A. County beaches seem much nicer looking. That's just our opinion.
I have talked to several people who grew up in Southern California beach towns in the 1960s-80s and they have said Jacksonville and the beaches remind them of Southern California back then. ( Just to be sure I know it is not EXACTLY the same, and its opinion and others may disagree so no need to post a message of how California is SOOO much better.)
Jacksonville metro has 1.5 million, and LA is ~10 million, more if you include San Diego, so obviously much more variety in stuff, but its not like you are moving to Abilene, Kansas. Orlando is 2 hours south also so the theme parks, lots of direct ( or cheaper) flights etc.
I think the hardest thing moving cross country is being far from family and friends. I have first cousins in Upland and Rancho Cucamonga who I have not seen in over 30 years.
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