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"But for some people, the safety of a private school with a wealth of resources is disproportionately worth the cost"
- what safety issue has Stanton or Paxon had? i would say that this is a perception vs. reality issue.....but i've never read, heard, or seen anything that suggested that there was a safety issue at either school. Ever. Have you?
- what academic resources do tyou think they lack?
Very curious where you get your information from....
I can't say for sure, but I doubt someone has been shot across the street from Bolles or Episcopal and run onto school grounds before dying (like what happened at Stanton a few years ago).
Also, from my couple visits to Bolles, I doubt they had quite as many classes in trailers as I did...or a wall that was cracking in the AP physics classroom (like Mr Hegeman liked to joke about)...and our math team did not have the funds to participate in as many competitions as Bolles (our arch rivals)
fsu, are you telling me you thought Stanton's campus facilities were adequate? Nothing you would've changed? Things must have really fallen into disrepair just after you left.
BTW to anyone else reading this, from what I have heard, Stanton's campus is vastly improved now.
Last edited by projectmaximus; 11-16-2009 at 02:03 PM..
Reason: whoops...typed the same paragraph twice cause of computer error
Like I said to Joe, I really wasn't trying to be difficult- I just wondered where the information came from. I know that I'm biased because I went to Stanton, and still to me, $17k per year is a TON of $$$ to spend on a private school education that tends to be better than a magnet school. I will concede on the points that Bolles certainly has more resources that Stanton and is possibly even a better school with better instructors, but I hold firm that Stanton and Paxon are a better value. That is all.
Those are all fair points. Truth be told, I'm not 100% sure whether I would prefer Stanton or Bolles/Episcopal if I have any children. Like I said, if I were absolutely confident that my kid were Ivy League-bound (and I could afford it) I'd probably choose the private schools just to get that little extra edge. But beyond that - and especially if money were an issue - Stanton would be hard to turn down. Like you said, it is a good value.
As someone who went to private school for elementary and middle too, I am NOT convinced of their value at all. I think most of the learning at that age is done through the parents anyway. I'd almost certainly go public if a tolerable option is available.
Quote:
Originally Posted by projectmaximus
Joe, I like that US News and World Report Ranking. I usually use that to brag about my high school more than the Newsweek one. It really is more flattering when you dig into the numbers.
Yeah, I absolutely agree projectmaximus. That US News #43 is far more impressive than the Newsweek #1 because of the formulas behind the numbers. Stanton students/alums should be extremely proud of that #43.
All of the schools that you listed are excellent schools. I can't say much about Bolles or Episcopal, since I don't know anyone who goes there and all I know is through the grape vine.
Bolles is known to have a high standing reputation, mostly for being a very wealthy private school that gives a very good education. They are very sports-oriented and are #1 in many areas.
I really don't know anything about Episcopal. I don't think they focus on religion too much and I think they give a good education. Again, all speculation here.
I can give you a lot of information about Mandarin, Stanton, and Paxon as I attend one of these and know people who attend the others.
The school I attend is Mandarin, and I love this school. Most of the teachers here are excellent, and most of the students are too. The only people you really have to worry about are the inner city students they bus in from Ribault and Raines. But, if your children are in Honors, AP or AICE classes, they won't have to worry about them except for when they see them in the hallways. I am not in the AICE program, but I am friends with many people who are. In my opinion, the AICE program is a waste of time. I am in all Honors and AP classes and achieved straight A's this 9 weeks, with mostly A's and a few B's the last two years. Now, my friends, who have been in Pre-AICE and AICE classes have made grades more in the B to C range. They learn the same material, they just learn it at a faster more rigorous pace. They have work piled on them and never have any time for free time. It is in a good area of town, surrounded by nice homes with very little fear of crime. I could go on about Mandarin, but I'll stop at saying that it is a very good school and always a great option.
For Stanton, I know many people who go there and are in the IB program. I also know someone who transferred from the IB program to Mandarin. My friends who are in this program work all the time. More than the people in AICE. I was invited to be in the IB program, and I declined based on my friends opinions. One of my friends who is currently in it is very, very smart. I've known her since elementary school and she has always got A's without trying, although she works the hardest of anyone I know. She works from when she gets home to midnight most nights. Every weekend and every break she is working all the time. She is taking the same classes that I am, is learning the same material and is working 1000x harder. It is not in a good area and it does affect the school. They have security surrounding the school and it is locked up to prevent the drug dealers and delinquents from entering. The girl that transferred from Stanton to Mandarin absolutely hated it. She said that she did not like the teachers, the students, and that she was working too hard for not very good grades.
In the case of Paxon, my cousin attends it and I have friends in the IB program. Paxon is known to not be as tough as Stanton. The IB program is about the same, just a little easier. I am also friends with someone who transferred from Paxon to Mandarin, and she said that she just didn't like the school and the teachers. The area is also not very good, and my cousin told me that students have been mugged at the gas station across the street.
I'm not saying that Stanton and Paxon are bad schools. They are actually very good. And, Mandarin isn't perfect either. The school springs things on the students and seems like it doesn't care what the students want. The whole school is also outdoors, except for the classrooms of course. So, this means that we are affected by the temperature outside. Especially with the cold weather, the mornings are almost unbearable.
In my opinion, if you have the money, I would send your kids to Bolles. It's a top-tier school with most of it's students getting into the college of their choice.
We are relatively new to the area and both our children have been invited to apply to Stanton (IB), Paxton (IB) and Mandarin (AICE), Additionally we are fortunate to be able to afford either Bolles or Episcopal, We have attended introductory programs at all four of the afore mentioned schools.
We have a "gut" feeling about two but would love to hear your opinions of each.
We are curious about the commute to Stanton, Paxton and Episcopal from Olde Mandarin area and quite concerned about the physical surroundings of Stanton and Paxon as you may know they are housed in rather "marginal" part of Jacksonville. Academics of course being primary concern, although one must feel their children are safely housed.
Please advise ......
thank you
i am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that your concerns aren't racist cause of the "marginal" surroundings of stanton and paxton. i live in mandarin and have no idea where "olde mandarin" is. but i've also lived on the north side and over the years have spend significant time in every area of this city. i believe most of the schools in the city are pretty secure from external problems, thus are only vulnerable to internal conflicts. if i had to choose i would chose stanton because that school was rated #1 in all of america for 1 or 2 years. i know personally that they send many students through college on full scholarships, including family members of mine. the surroundings are plenty safe just neglected by the city and business as far as reinvesting. but no your kids won't get mugged or something while going to class. at least no more than they would at any other school including bolles. i don't know much about paxton, except that they have made a tremendous effort to compete with stanton. bolles, the students are very priviledged, but i haven't seen where the school itself has done anything exceptional. i think i would rate the school on the same level as Mandarin High. where i live. btw i used to teach in duval so i know alittle something but that was long ago so i'm not extremely upto date.
Bolles and Episcopal are like Harvard, Stanford, Yale, Princeton, MIT, Caltech. The best of the best. If you want your kids to go to these, and they must be probably smarter than you, their best chance is by going to Bolles, if not, then Episcopal.
Stanton and Paxon and like the best public schools in the country; UNC, Virginia, Texas, Berkeley, Michigan, William & Mary, Florida. If you cannot afford 200K+ for college for your kids, plus the $80K or so it would cost to go to Bolles or Episcopal, then these are great options. UF is a top 50 national school, and for the price, with a bright futures scholarship, you really can not beat it.
Setting up a trust fund for your kids and putting aside 20K per year when they are in high school (the amount you would be paying for private school) and 40K per year when they are in college (the difference between paying private education vs. UF) would probably give them a greater advantage than going to a private school. Unless it is one of the top 10 programs, I would never pay for my kids to go to private college. Vanderbilt is a great private school. But it is ranked 17th compared to 47th for UF. But 50K per year vs. less than 10K for 30 spots? Not worth it in my opinion. Your kids will get into the same grad schools going either place.
Bolles and Episcopal are like Harvard, Stanford, Yale, Princeton, MIT, Caltech. The best of the best. If you want your kids to go to these, and they must be probably smarter than you, their best chance is by going to Bolles, if not, then Episcopal.
Stanton and Paxon and like the best public schools in the country; UNC, Virginia, Texas, Berkeley, Michigan, William & Mary, Florida. If you cannot afford 200K+ for college for your kids, plus the $80K or so it would cost to go to Bolles or Episcopal, then these are great options. UF is a top 50 national school, and for the price, with a bright futures scholarship, you really can not beat it.
Setting up a trust fund for your kids and putting aside 20K per year when they are in high school (the amount you would be paying for private school) and 40K per year when they are in college (the difference between paying private education vs. UF) would probably give them a greater advantage than going to a private school. Unless it is one of the top 10 programs, I would never pay for my kids to go to private college. Vanderbilt is a great private school. But it is ranked 17th compared to 47th for UF. But 50K per year vs. less than 10K for 30 spots? Not worth it in my opinion. Your kids will get into the same grad schools going either place.
Actually, Stanton was rated #1 in the country plain and simple. not just among public schools. Bolles was never rated #1 in the country. so i don't know where your info about harvard comes from other than a preconceived notion. it's a good school that has affluent students anything more than that has to be shown.
Actually, Stanton was rated #1 in the country plain and simple. not just among public schools. Bolles was never rated #1 in the country. so i don't know where your info about harvard comes from other than a preconceived notion. it's a good school that has affluent students anything more than that has to be shown.
The #1 ranking has already been discounted. Stanton is not the best high school in the country, nor has it ever been. It is a very good high school, one of the best 50 public high schools in the country. US news has them at #43 on a list that excludes privates.
You are kidding yourself if you don't think Bolles is a more prestigous school than Stanton. I don't know about quality of education, but between the two, comparing the quality of education is most likely splitting hairs. Heck, I'd even say based on diversity of the student body alone that the quality of education at Stanton is better.
If your kid is a 4.0+ with a 1500+, it probably doesn't matter which he/she went to. If your kid is 3.6 with a 1400, it he/she would benefit from going to Bolles over Stanton when it comes to Harvard. (or whatever in top ten) You are kidding yourself if you don't think that for the borderline kids Harvard is looking at wealth. Kids that have wealthy parents have a much higher probability to get jobs with their parents friends companies, not to mention have a higher probability to pay their bills on time. Now, Harvard might have a hard time knowing about the applicants parents occupation or how wealthy they are, but they do know if an applicant comes from Bolles, his/her parents were at least wealthy enough to drop 80 grand on high school.
That matters, I promise you. One spot left at Harvard next fall, down to two applicants. One from Stanton, the other Bolles. Identical GPAs and SATs. Do you really think that the adcom is going to take the kid from Stanton, whose parents might not have wealthy connections nor the ability to pay the tuition bill? Or, are they taking the kid from Bolles, whose parents probably have wealthy connections, allowing Skip Jr. to get a high paying job, increasing the average Harvard grad salary numbers, increasing the probability Jr. gives money to the uni, and increasing the likelihood the Jr.'s tuition bill is paid on time?
I think there is a book about this called Rich Dad, Poor Dad.
If Bolles & Episcopal send more kids to exlcusive universities it's because thier families can afford to do so (the cost of out-of-state tuition is immense), not because of academics.
Truth be told, the financial aid situation at many Ivies and Ivy tier private schools can be very generous, and a family making about $60K or less per year will spend very little money on tuition if their kid is accepted at Harvard or Yale. And there are plenty of other schools just below Ivy level with big endowments that will cheerfully buy the best student body they can.
A good guidance or college planning person at a school knows how to navigate in that realm, and that the cost for the right student to go to Rice or Harvard is probably only a couple plane tickets more than what it will cost them to go to U of F.
Because while U of F has some good programs, state higher ed right now is an underfunded mess, and the only public in the state right now I'd consider elite is New College, and they're not the right academic fit for everyone.
^ GradyWhite - most of the Ivy's now have "need blind" admission, so your hypothetical would not apply to Harvard and several others.
However, for a lot of other elite colleges, your scenario is absolutely correct. Prestige does matter. This is a harsh reality that not only applies to Stanton/Paxon, but also Bolles/Episcopal, as absolutely no local schools can compare to the prestige and connections offered at elite New England high schools.
The good news for Stanton is that it's developing enough history that admissions officers are now going to be a bit more familiar with them. Certainly the southern schools at least.
Sadly, it will be a long time before ANY Florida high school gets the true respect it deserves from college admissions officers in New England, but that's a rant for another day.
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