Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Judaism
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-07-2011, 09:13 AM
 
3,483 posts, read 4,046,043 times
Reputation: 756

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavaturaccioli View Post
Because the Jewish religious calendar, like the Christian liturgical calendar, is based on a lunar cycle. Since Christ himself was a knowledgeable and very active rabbi who celebrated all the Jewish holy days it stands to reason that Christians would have their own holidays in much the same way. (You do realize that Judaism was around for thousands of years before Christianity, don't you? Jews don't have alternate holidays to Christians; it's the other way around if anything. The Last Supper was actually a Seder.)

You're correct, though Judaism was technically only around for about 500-600 years prior to Christianity. It sprung out of the Israelite's experience in the Exile. They had a religion before this, but it was not called Judaism and did not share most of the core ideas that make up what later became Judaism. Even the name "Jew" was a late introduction, being based on a foreign term for the "Judahites" that were exiled.

But besides that small caveat - you're correct about Jewish and Israelite customs and practices predating Christianity. Christianity, after all, was a jewish sect when it began.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-07-2011, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Richardson, TX
8,734 posts, read 13,821,652 times
Reputation: 3808
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madrid Gal View Post
Hanukkah is not even an important holiday, and is a regular work day of Jews around the world.

However, the past few decades Jews wanted to bring back the importance of the holiday so they have something to compare and alt with Christmas since it usually fall during Christmas month. Why do Jews always have to have alt holiday when Christians have their own?!

That's a reason so the word "Christmas" gets avoided and start to use the "Holidays"....

What do you think?

Many Jews I know said the same as me, and even a ex-Jew has websites about it.
Also many Jews try to avoid anything to do with Christmas which I see as ridiculous if they live in a country where Christmas Day is a national holiday.

Will The Hanukkah Menorah Toppling Start A Trend? | Real Zionist News
It might be good to note that if there wasn't the victory that the battle that Hanukkah celebrates, there probably would not have been a Christmas. Just sayin'.

That reminded me of this Lewis Black bit from one of his live performances. Now, for those whose ears are too sensitive to his rather colorful vocabulary and often employed euphemisms, you may not want to click on the video below, but it does reflect how he remembered the two holidays from his youth.


Lewis Black - Hanukkah and Christmas - YouTube

Last edited by PanTerra; 12-07-2011 at 02:36 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-07-2011, 02:28 PM
 
6,205 posts, read 7,461,717 times
Reputation: 3563
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I would say some people look for ulterior motives and manage to find them. The simple fact is Dec. 25 comes at a holiday time for nearly all of the world. It is not just Christmas that is Celebrated on that Date.

Some other days that are on or near Dec. 25

Winter soltice(solstice)
I think that was THE REAL holiday and the others just followed with something unique to their religion.

To the OP: I don't get what you are saying. What's the point?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-07-2011, 03:53 PM
 
Location: Santa FE NM
3,490 posts, read 6,511,972 times
Reputation: 3813
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madrid Gal View Post
Why do they always have something alt. to a Christian holiday?

That's what my main point is
Before going much farther, perhaps you should examine a couple of facts. First, the celebration of Hanukkah began better than 150 years before Christ's birth. Second, the Christian celebration of Christmas on December 25th did not begin until more than 300 years after Christ's death.

Based on this perhaps the REAL QUESTIONS are more like: (a) "Exactly who is copying whom?" and (b) "Which celebration is more likely to be the real alternate celebration?"

Wishing you and yours the Season's BEST, regardless of how (and when) you celebrate it!

-- Nighteyes (who follows the teachings of Christ as he understands them)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-07-2011, 04:24 PM
 
Location: Katonah, NY
21,192 posts, read 25,171,795 times
Reputation: 22276
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madrid Gal View Post
Why do they always have something alt. to a Christian holiday?

That's what my main point is
You seem to be under the impression that the Jews got together a few years ago, looked at the dates of the Christian holidays, and then decided to invent their own holidays around those same dates. Is this what you think? Because that's the only explanation I can find for your "point."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-07-2011, 04:36 PM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
9,455 posts, read 12,549,065 times
Reputation: 16453
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Lucy- View Post
Many Jews, especially those with kids, felt "jealous" and "alone" during Christmas holiday because their kids always saw santas,
Not me. As a kid we had a menorah and a Hanukkah Bush. Did just fine.

Hanukkah bush - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-07-2011, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Katonah, NY
21,192 posts, read 25,171,795 times
Reputation: 22276
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
Not me. As a kid we had a menorah and a Hanukkah Bush. Did just fine.

Hanukkah bush - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Did you have Hanukkah Harry? That's what my dad called him!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-07-2011, 05:02 PM
 
Location: 30-40°N 90-100°W
13,809 posts, read 26,561,880 times
Reputation: 6790
One thing I used to find odd is Hanukkah is about the Maccabees, but the Book of Maccabees is not canonical in Judaism or Protestantism.

I think the explanation might have been that although Judaism does not see the specific book as valid for doctrine they recognize the importance of the Maccabees and their efforts in Jewish history. Is it something like that or did I really muff it there?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-07-2011, 06:06 PM
 
Location: Not where you ever lived
11,535 posts, read 30,269,957 times
Reputation: 6426
Chanukah commemorates the successful rebellion of the Jewish people against the Syrians in the Maccabean War of 162 BCE and after the victory the Jewish rededicated the Temple before they re-lit the menorah or “perpetual lamp". It has been told that although there was only enough consecrated oil to keep the lamp burning for one day and it would take eight days to get more, the small bottle of oil miraculously lasted for the entire eight days, so it is also for this reason that Hanukkah is known as the Feast of Lights .

Thus Jews have been lighting the menora in celebration for over 2000 years. It has nothing to do with Christ. Christmas, Christianity, Mary, Joseph or winter holidays. Incidentally it is summer "down under" and Christmas is celeebrated on the 25th of this month in the swimming pools and not in a snow storms. Santa wears that ugly red suit there, too.

Some are just luckier than others.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-07-2011, 06:50 PM
 
3,483 posts, read 4,046,043 times
Reputation: 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
One thing I used to find odd is Hanukkah is about the Maccabees, but the Book of Maccabees is not canonical in Judaism or Protestantism.

I think the explanation might have been that although Judaism does not see the specific book as valid for doctrine they recognize the importance of the Maccabees and their efforts in Jewish history. Is it something like that or did I really muff it there?

It's very strange how many of the "apocryphal" books were not included in the Jewish canon, but accepted in other canons (like the Catholic canon). Later, the Protestants insisted that only Hebrew books should be included in the Old Testament canon.

The books, like you say, were very important for Judaism and even reflected different approaches to it. But because they came after the period where some considered Divine Inspiration to have ended, and possibly because of their Hellenistic ideas (not all of them, of course), they were not included. The entire subject is strange and interesting. It used to have been said that the Greek of the books was another barrier - but now we have found many Hebrew manuscripts of at least parts of the books in question.

Today, because of Zionism, the accounts of the Maccabees have enjoyed increased favor and identification. It's one of the few periods in their history (since the Exile) in which they existed as an independent nation once again, albeit for a short time.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Judaism
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:15 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top