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Lol no they did not the idea that the Avot- fathers were already observing the torah before Matan Torah is just an aggada- to convey a point not something really to be taken historical or serious. Since if that were the case why did Yakov marry a woman and her sister something which the Chumash prohibits in Vayikra. Don't you think if Yakov knew about this prohibition he would have readily had two wives which were sisters Rachel and leah come on now.
Which links are broken?
Perhaps they can be fixed.
Not sure exactly what you are asking. Are you saying that you don't understand why Abraham is considered the first Jew, and founder of Judaism?
You actually are quoting yourself from one paragraph up on the same page. That is rather novel and gave me a chuckle, thank you!
The link in post #24 is broken, or at least is to my computer.
The comments in post #13 by rosends seems pretty clear to me, and I don't think that I disagree with any of it.
I don't think that I am asking anything, or saying that I don't understand anything. I may not always be right, but I am never in doubt.
I can certainly understand why people would say that Abraham is the founder of Judaism. Others might say that haShem is the founder of Judaism.
I consider the idea that Abraham was the first "Jew" ridiculous. Yehudah was his great-grandson. Nine of his twelve great-grandsons were not Jewish, by the most liberal definition.
Remember that "Jew," by halachah, is an ethnic designation unmodified by religion. A person who was born a Jew remains a Jew even if he has been washed in the blood of the lamb, whatever that means, AND has subsequently become a Hare Krishna, whatever that is. Being Jewish is one thing, and following Judaism is another.
I only claimed that Abraham was not a Jew, any more than King George was a Virginian.
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